All I’m hearing here is complaints by people who only play SF games. the kind of things you guys are complaining about are standard in many modern games. Magneto’s mixups and guessing games are what truly make him god tier, NOT his infinite. Without those insane mixups, he wouldn’t be able to land his infinities. I could give further examples in Guilty Gear, Melty Blood, TvC, King of Fighters, even SF III.
There is nothing wrong with providing many different playstyles for many different types of players.
If you truly played a solid game against these characters, there mixups would have never been able to happen. It is possible to keep a lock down on these characters provided the right choices at the right times.
Also note that footsies have a strong random element to them as well, though less so.
guilty gear, melty blood, tvc, and kof all suck though.
if we wanted that style of play, we would play those crappy games you listed. there are several reasons why sf is popular and random BS isnt one of them
I’m not really sure how you would measure that though, on a world wide basis. I know its King in Mexico at least haha.
Guilty Gear sucks? Yeah okay there boy, keep in mind it is the second longest lasting game next to SSF:II Turbo in the Japanese arcades.
If you don’t like that style of play, simply pick a character who isn’t that style, and learn the 4 to 7 matchups that require you to deal with these kinds of characters. SSFIV is a myrid of styles and you’re just going to have to learn how to play against each style of character.
Who’s says people who are complaining only play SF games? It’s just that when people want to play an SF game they expect certain things, not just a dice rolling guessing game.
You can play a close to perfect game and still get knocked down. I don’t know how many times I’ve been knocked down to 10% health as Abel only to get in once guess right three times and win the entire round. Saying that every character has the ability to keep out a mix up character is really just a way of dismissing the valid complaints of these characters being dumb in the first place.
That’s a huge over simplification of what footsies are. Now, random is a bad word to discribe how mix up characters work in the first place, but I think it’s a good word just to point out how stupid you can be with, say, Abel and still win. Footsies, like high level play in SF in general, are based on both reaction and prediction. The mix between these two aspects can make for an incredibly complex and intelligent match. Now mix ups off of the knockdown are essentially all prediction, and this wouldn’t be bad. But, the SF4 system with it’s safe jumps, option selects, and untechable knockdowns really dumb down the predictions to a mere dice rolling. This is far different from footsies where if you can judge what your opponent is going to do off of many different factors. When knocked down most characters are limited to a small set of options, assuming there’s not an option select that rapes one or all options. So, is there a random factor to footsies? Not exactly, but guessing does play its part and your options are varied enough so that it’s not nearly as braindead as Oki.
Playing ‘‘Solid’’ in this instance requires of you to play a zoning game in order not to get knocked down or allow them to get in their comfort zone. But Akuma can get one sweep and vortex you to death because you guessed wrong. Abel can get in once and destroy you. Viper can sneeze into ultra. Rufus can have you guess wrong between blocking and grabbing in the corner, thus netting him a free U1. Low risk : low reward options are far harder to apply consistently in a tournament format because you’re not given as much room to make mistakes and/or make a comeback.
That’s why, imo, guessing games rule all. (we’ve been there already :O)
Akuma isn’t a great example though, I mean, the man’s footsies are only beat by arguably Chun-Li and Balrog. His normals, walkspeed, teleport, fireballs, and anti-airs are incredible. Honestly we could use Akuma as an example of how just about any playstyle is preferable, the man simply has that many options.
Other games are irrelevant to main purpose of this discussion, way to be completely dismissive. I layed that out for you without being a dick and you’re responding in a way that doesn’t even address a single full sentence that I wrote. Why don’t you just respond by calling me a ******, or tell me to eat a bag of dicks because that probably would have been more substantive.
That’s cool and all and I enjoy those games you mentioned that I have played, but I don’t want to see SF become more like another game because it would lose what makes Street Fighter “Street Fighter”. I actually like that each SF game is vastly different from one another though but I wouldn’t want to see Capcom make a SF game that was more like KoF or GG just because those games are popular. It’s good to keep an unique identity; SF caters to the people who don’t like those games.
Take VF for example, it could be more Tekken but it isn’t, providing an alternative for 3D fighters. SF is the alternative if you don’t like KoF, GG, etc.
This all just sounds like people whining they don’t like mixup characters in Street Fighter. And I understand that you have expectations for Street Fighter games, you can say that about any sequel to any game, but I fail to see how a different playstyle isn’t Street Fighter. You’d have a point if you had something like Bridget’s HS Yoyo, Mu’s crystal thingies, or whatever because none of the SF characters would have much of anything to defend against that (now that reminds me of something from ST).
Hell, who doesn’t make a (educated) guess when it comes to mixups in Street Fighter. Hell, if we’ve got people that don’t like mixup characters, then get rid of mixups period, that’ll make for a great game.
But everybody has a different definition of what SF is. Some people say 3S is not a traditional SF game, others say the same about Alpha 3. You could make the game like ST, but then would you call it SF4 or SFII:3D edition?
Even with the differences among themselves, it was still unique from KoF/SNK, GG, etc. There’s a “feel” to SF that appeals to players who don’t like those games.
The argument here is that those Viper/Fuerte/Abel/Rufus characters are out of place or too far out there or whatever, I forgot the problem. I think they are out of place, but I think SF4 goal was to purposely get as many different styles in as possible to appeal to everyone, which will of course cause “character X feels so out of place” opinions. SF4 is its own game, and like every SF with a different #, it plays unique from the SF before it.
I don’t care, but I can understand the complaints/opinions.
I tried to argue that mix ups like the ones that Abel has in his game are braindead, ergo characters who rely on mix ups like Abel are braindead to a degree. If there’s similar shit in other games then it’s braindead too. Bringing up other games means jack for your argument.
I’ve played the shit out of every mix up character except Fuerte and I’m one of the main people complaining. Every character does have mix ups to a degree as they should. I’m only saying that certain characters dumb the game down far too much. I’m not against characters being rewarded for getting a kockdown, I’m against characters who base almost their entire game around getting the knockdown and just doing shit with hardly any thought for a potentially large reward.
akuma’s footsies aren’t really that good compared to ryu/ken, ryu/ken’s ground game is inferior to character’s like fei long, adon, rose - and their ground games are all inferior to Guile/Balrog/Chun/Bison
Point being, just because akuma has some okay normals doesn’t mean he isn’t a mixup character, he’s the perfect mixup character - if you’re playing akuma in any other style other than the “vortex” style, you suck, your opponent sucks, or you’re fighting gief.
the thing with akuma is, all of his options after a knockdown are pretty much safe outside of demon flip throw, if you block a divekick/whatever he can go into a blockstring/tick throw/frame trap and if you get hit he starts over, if not he’s pushed back to poke distance. where as abel/viper/fuerte/zangief’s options are mostly unsafe and they’ll usually have to take some hits/get lucky to get going again. This is why Akuma is high tier, safe mixups in combination with okay-ish normals and zoning.