SSF4 Tier List Thread REBOOT Super + AE (Updated: 02-01-09)

[HNIC_Mike]

hey sharin, fei is both really strong and pretty easy to pick up and play. but the original argument was him vs vanilla sagat, who is more retarded?

its not like fei steam rolls thru a bunch of characters, and only has one legit bad match. id say he is closer to vanilla ryu in that he has mostly 5-5s, and a few that either lean one way or the other. and that still might not be fair because vanilla ryu had the retarded ultra he landed every round to help him out.

fei dosent really have “cheap” or “easy mode” in anything that he does outside of the wake up HK CW into 300dmg, and the meterless 400 dmg combo on 5-6 characters.

speaking of which, i dont know why that wasnt taken out. maybe they should have just removed the comboability of HK CW completely. making the only combo/wake up version the EX.

with the buff to standing jab and ex rekkas, i dont think it would have really ruined any of his matches

[Sharin]

@Highlandfireball

Feilong is one of the best characters in the game and I dont need the opinion of any top player to know that, i´ve been saying it since super came out when starnab and evans started to show the whole EU scene the potential that character has. I have my own opinion of tiers (#1cammy #2 akuma #3 fei). Im not crying either, but fei not being top tier is not even debatable at this point.

I remember i´ve read on some interview to seth Killian that the matchup of ryu was hard, I remember it perfectly because i was shocked that any feilong player dared to even think that, I´ll try to find the link.

edit: http://shoryuken.com/f273/breaking-news-nyc-comic-con-253483/

@HNIC Mike

Yeah of course vanilla sagat was more retarded.

I agree the most stupid thing of fei now is HK cw and the meterlesss mp cw combo (this shit works on dudley! ), his focus is pretty dumb too but I guess ne needs it.

[Warlike]

Viper, Feurte, and Abel are all pretty dumb in how they play. At least Abel can rely on footsies to a large extent though, so he’s more legit than the last two. Burn kicks are absolutely idiotic, not over powered, just dumb in their application to a match.

‘legit’

Really?

[PurpleLemonadeGGPO]

Viper, Feurte, and Abel are all pretty dumb in how they play. At least Abel can rely on footsies to a large extent though, so he’s more legit than the last two. Burn kicks are absolutely idiotic, not over powered, just dumb in their application to a match.

f+mk is more idiotic than fuerte and viper combined.

[Highlandfireball]

@Highlandfireball

but fei not being top tier is not even debatable at this point.

I respect your opinion but it is debatable. Aside from one of the greatest players on the planet using him as his main. There’s no other major impact showing Fei as being in the top 3. Tournamant results? Popularity? Tier lists? all point against Fei Long. Sure Star Nab and Evan’s , maybe Inthul all give him a good run out but usually they get trumped in the end.

Further more, he has no Ultra outside of a focus crumple. (not counting FADC, which again is character specific in situations)

Put that all together and then telling my Fei Long is easy mode just ruffles my feathers a bit. But each to his own.

He is a great character and one of the best I think, but his mix ups are not even close to the likes of Akuma, Cammy etc

[HNIC_Mike]

f+mk is more idiotic than fuerte and viper combined.

dunno about that. thats abel’s one good offensive normal, and it isnt even good in the scope of the game.

consider abel has no other ways of getting his offense going. not to over simplify things, but if you dont let him step kick you he cant really do anything that dosent involve major risk

[PurpleLemonadeGGPO]

dunno about that. thats abel’s one good offensive normal, and it isnt even good in the scope of the game.

consider abel has no other ways of getting his offense going. not to over simplify things, but if you dont let him step kick you he cant really do anything that dosent involve major risk

abel is a grappler who can’t be traditionally zoned out like a zangief. you have to outpoke him in an in fight. you’re going to eat the step kick if the abel player is any good.

abel has the stamina and the damage output with or without soulless stocked that “risk” isn’t nearly the same as a fuerte or a viper.

[Bman]

f+mk is more idiotic than fuerte and viper combined.

It’s a very strong tool, but it’s not dumb or braindead, though the mix ups that follow it can be. Abel is a dumb ass character, but like I said he relies on footsies more than Elf or Viper combined, so he’s definitely a more conventional SF character. Either way though, all the aformentioned characters require few braincells to play. This is coming from someone who put his heart and soul into getting good with Abel. It’s just that it stopped being satisfying to win with Abel using braindead bullshit.

abel is a grappler who can’t be traditionally zoned out like a zangief. you have to outpoke him in an in fight. you’re going to eat the step kick if the abel player is any good.

abel has the stamina and the damage output with or without soulless stocked that “risk” isn’t nearly the same as a fuerte or a viper.

This is very wrong. While Abel is better at getting around zoning than Gief or Hawk, he absoutely loses to good zoning. Also, he is a much, much higher risk mix up chracter than Viper or Elf.

[HNIC_Mike]

abel is a grappler who can’t be traditionally zoned out like a zangief. you have to outpoke him in an in fight. you’re going to eat the step kick if the abel player is any good.

abel has the stamina and the damage output with or without soulless stocked that “risk” isn’t nearly the same as a fuerte or a viper.

maybe he deals with fireball zoning better than gief or hawk, but chracters with strong footsie tools give him problems

if his step kick wasnt in the game, he would still deal with traditional fireball zoning well. the kick just stops him from being one of those polarizing character types by allowing him to at least compete with the characters with strong footsies

[PurpleLemonadeGGPO]

It’s a very strong tool, but it’s not dumb or braindead, though the mix ups that follow it can be.

read that aloud to yourself again

This is very wrong. While Abel is better at getting around zoning than Gief or Hawk, he absoutely loses to good zoning. Also, he is a much, much higher risk mix up chracter than Viper or Elf.

because his oki isnt entirely safe? because he’s liable to take a couple of hits before getting an untechable knockdown? that doesn’t make him a riskier character.

[sakeido]

read that aloud to yourself again

because his oki isnt entirely safe? because he’s liable to take a couple of hits before getting an untechable knockdown? that doesn’t make him a riskier character.

Viper and Elf both have an easier time getting around things like mashed fast normals, reversals, mash throw, etc

Abel has very little leeway with his guesses. He has to be pretty specific to beat what the other guy is going to do, so he has to (IMO) make more accurate reads than either Fuerte or Viper do. He gets rewarded for it so well it all evens out in the end… even if he makes a bad read and doesn’t get any damage, provided the other guy didn’t knock him down, Abel is still in a very dangerous distance and will likely get another mixup opportunity pretty quick.

Viper is only better than Abel because her defensive options are better. Her damage output is generally higher across the board too, and she has a set of low-risk options to fall back onto (hit confirms, c.mp/c.mk xx thunder knuckle) whereas Abel doesn’t really

Abel “losing to good zoning” is not very accurate tho. The only character who can even hope to zone Abel with FBs is Guile. A more accurate statement would be “Abel loses to good pokes” … not shoto c.mk, because his F+MK hangs with it no problem, but stuff like Chun Li s.rh/c.rh/s.mp, Honda c.lp/s.rh/s.fp, Dictator s.mk/s.rh, Zangief and Hawk’s normals. and he loses hard to splash mixups too but not many chars have those

[pedoviejo]

Fuerte - run, run, run, FA, run, slide, throw, run, run, tostada, run, run, wall jump, run, run, run, fajita, run, knock down, random it up on knockdown
Viper - Feint, Feint, imaginary footsies, Feint, TK, cr.mp xx TK, super jump, BK, BK, BK, Feint, Feint, over head, grab, random it up of knock down
Rufus - limited footsies, fish for sweep, DK, DK, DK, grab, DK, GT, GT, DK, jump forward, EX Snake Strike, DK, DK, DK, Ultra
Abel - play imaginary footsies, land st.lk, frame trap f.mk, random it up, f.mk combo Ultra 1 knock down, random it up, tech, Ultra 2 if Ultra 1 isnt used

Those 4 characters do not follow traditional SF rules and are all based on Mix ups which make you guess and force you to not block, the exception Rufus. Notice they are all new characters as well.

[Anemone]

You forgot Ibuki.

Also I don’t care what that guy says, Street Fighter III has waaay more guessing games than this. Even Chun-Li makes you play guessing games in that.

[Veserius]

this game has too much going on, lets play rock paper scissors.

[bloodninja]

this game has too much going on, lets play rock paper scissors.

Fuerte IS rock paper scissors. That’s what I always yell at my tv when I’m salty over a Fuerte loss.

[ice_rei]

Abel “losing to good zoning” is not very accurate tho. The only character who can even hope to zone Abel with FBs is Guile. A more accurate statement would be “Abel loses to good pokes” … not shoto c.mk, because his F+MK hangs with it no problem, but stuff like Chun Li s.rh/c.rh/s.mp, Honda c.lp/s.rh/s.fp, Dictator s.mk/s.rh, Zangief and Hawk’s normals. and he loses hard to splash mixups too but not many chars have those

Sagat completely annihilates Abel much worse than Guile can… seriously. That matchup is ridiculous if the Sagat knows what he’s doing( [media=youtube]nA1PVW0OtLE&feature=player_detailpage#t=263s]YouTube - [SF4 Japan Nationals[/media] ) this is the matchup at the highest level of play, now watch the rape…

[Anemone]

That’s Vanilla man, Sagat has lost a lot of juice since then.

[Trini_Judoka]

But that wasn’t even kara TU FADC f.hk to U1 for > half damage nonsense. That was strait footsies.

Well the TK stuff in strings def got shitted on but still…

[Bman]

read that aloud to yourself again

We’re talking about the F+MK tool itself, not the mix ups. It is a footsie tool and to use that tool fully, it does take brains.

because his oki isnt entirely safe? because he’s liable to take a couple of hits before getting an untechable knockdown? that doesn’t make him a riskier character.

Higher risk mix up options makes the character higher risk, I don’t give a shit about health. Akuma is far lower risk than Abel and he’s bottom two on health.

Really, I don’t even know why we’re arguing. Mix up characters like the ones we are talking about are pretty dumb, end of story. I never intended on getting into a debate over the silliness of the specific characters.

I admit, sometimes I assume zoning means ability to keep out and isn’t always true. That was mistake on my part. Nobody except Guile can really consistently zone Abel, but a handfull can keep him out.

[sakeido]

Sagat completely annihilates Abel much worse than Guile can… seriously. That matchup is ridiculous if the Sagat knows what he’s doing( [media=youtube]nA1PVW0OtLE&feature=player_detailpage#t=263s]YouTube - [SF4 Japan Nationals[/media] ) this is the matchup at the highest level of play, now watch the rape…

no.
abel beats sagat now.
it was maybe 5.5-4.5 for Sagat in vanilla because of s.lk and tiger knee pressure
now its 6-4 abel