sf4 > the term:vanilla
So 20 more damage on his TU and redistribution of damage on a st.short that you still can’t cancel has made him very similar to his Vanilla version - tiger knee traps, massive damage, 1-frame faster shot recovery (high and low), better st.rh damage at the tip and dumb as fuck constant trade into step kick into ultra disregarded?
If you say so. I wouldn’t know.
edit: apparently lk. knee has changed somehow? are tiger knee blockstrings… a possibility now?
you can actually do them in console super, but you are generally -1 or so, which isn’t a great. You certainly aren’t able to be dp’d but aren’t at any sort of advantage and the chip is horrible.
Everyone here can go on semantics and nitpick about different tool sets, but with the buffs on Sagat right now and the nerfs to the rest of the cast, I believe he is more accessible to use and compete. Not as strong as vanilla, but close enough to the point where basic fundamentals can cause a dent to the opponent.
^ That can be said about every character
I dont get it , by that chain of tought Viper should be god tier like daigo says.
…
Viper is pretty gdlk with a ridiculously high damage ultra that can be landed numerous ways. What don’t you get? Tokido agrees, Daigo agrees, etc. etc.
Yeah, sagat is still a cakewalk in ssf4ae compared to vanilla sagat. Don’t even put them in the same statement. Nightmares of eating a tiger shot airborne into an ex tiger shot airborne still gives me nightmares.
And no, lk tiger knee is unchanged from ssf4 cause I have a friend playing AE as I write this who just told me it feels the same. That friend is running a 30+ win streak atm and has been using it the last few hours.
There’s an Xzibit joke in there somewhere.
AE sagat is no where near vanilla sagat.
Vanilla Sagat didn’t need basic fundamentals to get wins.
Yang’s LK Rollkick beats out a CONSIDERABLE amount of stuff on wakeup. You don’t use any other version though, otherwise Yang will do a roll first, which you can be hit/grabbed out of.
Skatan… coming from a player like yourself this suprises me . I dont want to get into another " was Sagat broken in vanilla" debate , but seriously… you put Vanilla sagat in AE and change absolutely nothing I think he still wouldnt be god tier like he was. He was good but you DEFINATELY needed to try to win.ofcourse you needed basic fundamentals to win ( what kind of a statement is that ? lol) If u ever mained him you would know.
plus there are characters now like Ibuki , dudley ( one certain dudley player makes this match up seem like 7-3) , now yun and yang. so many anti fireball specials and ultras. Sagat got too nerfed for ssf4 , and it was kind of a mess of a balanced game , too many " ok" characters and the ones that did have some good shit ended up being " high ok " characters. That why most tournament players mained 2 or even 3 characters just to counterpick because it WORKED so well!
I know every single person will probably not agree with me , but vanilla sagat was the most fun sagat ever was , and not for the damage , but for everything else , his tiger shot game , his tiger knee game was so good… im so pissed at what they did to tiger knee. His standing lk cancel. yes he was top tier but why destroy a characters soul to appeal to scrubs who cant beat him??
i would of been MORE then happy with changes more like…
TU 120 damage as it is now
trade to fw.hk GONE.
st lk and tiger knees UNTOUCHED!!! ( seriously every character has a way to beat these )
low ts UNTOUCHED!!! ( so many characters can just act like fireballs dont even exist)
health the same.
In AE there is hope , tigerknees are still dead , still no standing lk , but basically…everyone got nerfed so hard pretty much that he now stands a chance. Which is sad really.
vanilla sagat was the definition of herp derp. seriously. he could cough or sneeze into 600dmg.
Yes but that was in the context of vanilla… Its not the same anymore , there are plenty of " herp derp" characters in AE now but just in thier own way. Fei long??? retarded in ssf4 anyway if u knew who to fight , in AE he got buffs that where never needed and now is being spoken about as highest tier along with yun. Yun? do I really need to say anything ? Akuma has been herp derp since sf2. etc etc.
You forget, that its ok for a non fireball character to be top, but for a fireball character to be top? Nah its broken shit.
Fei Long outside of HK Chicken Wing, cl.fierce xx flamekick is not really herp derp, and even that is a hard link.
They also got rid of the invincibility on it in AE so he doesn’t have that going for him thus reducing his herp derp factor.
Dude just whittles you down 150-200 damage at a time generally.
Is he incredibly solid in every way? Pretty much, but he can’t just do free guess uppercut for 600 damage from half screen, comparing him to vanilla Sagat is dumb.
Not every characters, please. (check my av)
Actually read your long post.
Okay you obviously have no idea what you were talking about. The invincibility frames of TU cover up to the first active frame. Sagat doesn’t need more invincibility, you just need to time your uppercuts better because if you do, “random jump ins” CANNOT beat your uppercut.
I can pretty much tell you have never played a good fei long judging by your post. ( when i mean good I mean starnab ,evans good)
this has nothing to do with chickenwing invincibility.
again , your saying vanilla sagat in the context of vanilla ,there are sooo many factors ( the game was new , no1 knew shit basically , good characters werent really touched so people thought they were all shit, so many things still to be learnt" that yes he might have dominated in the first initial stage of the game , but seriously his nerfs are stupid and if u dont agree u dont know enough. " half screen uppercut for 600 damage " needed you to have 2 bars and full ultra stored , if you got hit by it its your own fault , and people are forgetting sagat can do 596 damage with full ultra and ONE BAR of ex in SSF4! ( ex tu + full ultra)
U SEE people dont even understand what made sagat so good in the first place and just join the bandwagon of " oh 600 damage half screen kara uppercut" .
Its like me taking fei now , and making " AE 2 "
no invincibility on chiken wing at all
flame kick does 100 damage
chicken wing is -2/-3 at all times from all angles and punishable and now does 30 damage .
jumping mp nerfed.
command throw taken away completely.
100 less health
no comboes after chicken wing.
cr mp is now 2 hit and non cancellable.
fei would probably be low mid after these changes , but what is the point? destroy the whole character so some scrubs can have a happier time playing him?? its exactly what they did to sagat.
When i meant random jump ins i mean sometimes the uppercut can be beaten clean by things like ken jumping HP or something ridicolous…uppercut timed right or not… its to do with the hitbox or angle… ( you see the uppercut come out n then the jumping hp or w.e beats it )so yeah maybe I should of said change the hitbox… ( this has ONLY started happening in ssf4) but dont start the pretentious shit with me I think i know what im talking about.