Ignoring the fact that some people are just too stupid or soft to play fighting games the biggest problem is really the input delay netcode and the inability of new players to recognize how it affects the game.
I think the main issue that the OP presented was the learning curve in SF4 compared to other fighters. In nearly all other games the learning curve is a steady slope, where you go from knowing nothing, to gradually using the tools you pick up to play the game, to mastery of the engine. With SF4 you start out with really basic stuff and all of a suddent the game pushes you off of a cliff into the land of one-frame links and FADCs. I really can’t think of another game that outright requires the player to rely on such timing-intensive combos as bnbs. Even more complex games like Guilty Gear have fairly short bnbs that the player can rely on until they learn more complex combos.
Il just say they should have ditched the focus attack dash cancel shit n just rolled with the focus attack. it was unneeded. would have been like super turbo kinda ,fadc into ultra shits ridiculous
This is the kind of topic that draws out faces you don’t usually see around these parts!
Holy fuck, is this true?
None play it here cause CS2 and EX sucks ass. Here’s hoping CP is good since we’re all getting it. But still… wtf @ this.
I think people have taken this discussion and turned it into a “your just lazy” etc… thread.
No one is arguing that it takes a lot of time and practice to master the game. They’re not saying to make it easier for noobs.
The point was that the game doesn’t provide you with the tools to even feel confident in starting (for people who have to FG experience) and that it might do them some good to put in some sort of walk-through.
I wouldn’t even know how to use the training room properly if my friend who has been playing FG from the beginning taught me how to use it effectively.
No one is trying to be spoon fed, but when its sink or swim, it’s hard to get new blood into the game.
I don’t understand, you would think since the FGC is so small people would support a good idea that DOESN’T effect them or make the game easier/button masher, but makes the scene bigger.
(yet I hear people bitch about how you can’t make real “e-sports” money in the FGC) give me a break.
StarCraft is a super difficult game to master on a high level. They have a good tut and give a good understanding of the game. Look how big it is.
To be honest, I never understood why they use a Z to represent the srk motion. When I was starting at fighting games I was like “wtf is this shit? that’s not how you do the move…”
About tutorials, Capcom should at least put a big disclaimer on the game’s cover, something like “ATTENTION NOOBS: WE DON’T TEACH YOU HOW TO PLAY THIS GAME, GO WATCH YOUTUBE VIDEOS OR SOMETHING. LEARN IT YOURSELF. WE DON’T CARE.”
While I don’t think high execution combos are really necessary, I do agree that their needs to be some sort of tutorial.
the Z motion is how you’d perform the shoryuken on an arcade stick, square gate
for pad players it would be a bit different, depending on what kind of d-pad you’re working with but either way it should be one smooth motion, not too fast or too slow
I think you have shitty execution…
I can play sf4 all I want and still be able to play any game I played. takes me like 2 matches and I am back to whatever I like playing(cvs2 usually)
You read it in George’s voice, didnt you?
And fooey on the no engine changes, forget where I read that, sorry.
OP should have made the title about the Training section being poor, not over all game play.
You can play characters who don’t have 1F links in their bnbs, that’s like 3/4 of the cast, and you can do plenty of damage with just 2F links. On the other hand FADC is pretty braindead, a buddy of mine who played mostly anime fighters learned in a matter of days.
It’s funny, because there was a similar thread on Dustloop discussing what changes Xrd should bring to make it more accessible to newcomers. People have all sorts of opinions when it comes to execution. Some believe that a game should require no execution at all, with special moves just being tied to command normals, and combos being simple magic series. But at that point, are you really playing a fighting game, or just a strategy game where you happen to fight?
It’s my opinion that every fighting game needs some degree of execution to keep it interesting, with the best balance being that you can always jump right in and use your character effectively, but if you put the time in, you get just a little bit extra. Unfortunately, I think a problem SF4 suffers from is that its execution is artificially difficult: there’s no reason why some combos should require 1F links and others shouldn’t, and for certain characters, knowing this stuff is basically a requirement. There is no input buffer, because that’s the way it’s always been. Some other games are even worse in this department, but I’ll try to keep this on topic.
Anyway, the rest of your post is kind of a rant, so I’m not sure how to respond. I do agree that SF4 needs a tutorial mode, but you have to remember that vanilla was released a long time before tutorial mode was a popular feature. I am sure that Ultra or SF5 will include one. I’m not sure if either of these things say too much about game design; to me that’s more about the engine/system/balance etc. Keep in mind that most of what you’re complaining about is even worse for the majority of fighting games out there, and no matter how good a tutorial mode is, it’s not going to fully prepare you for live battles, which is where the quality of the game’s design is truly tested.
Not quite. I might agree with you when it comes to a physical product, specially a new one. This does not apply to sequels, and specially not to entertainment, which is something Matrix 2 and 3 should have made clear. As a matter of fact, SF4 would have sold just as well - if not better - if it played like the classic games from the nineties. SF4 sold the way it did due to marketing and nostalgia (the latter being boosted by marketing): the actual product, the game itself, had very little to with it.
Duke Nukem Forever begs to differ…
“cursed” ? more like well planned business tactics. how else were they gonna revive street fighter and get people to play it? sure at first I was mad but I realize that its just business.
but I really dont understand why these character designs/3d models looks SO SHITTY AND RETARDED. would have been so much better if sf4 looked more like marvel3. wont even complain about gameplay because scrubs are still scrubs and top players are still top. only difference is, scrubs now have “hopes and dreams” about winning. before they didn’t even have that(3s/marvel2/cvs2 days)
Play Super Turbo instead 
That might explain why it sold well the first iteration. But what about the others ? Super was a huge success, too.
Also, 5 years after it’s release this game is still the most popular worldwide, so I would say it is more than nostalgia and marketing.
But as a general rule, I agree that sales not necessary equal quality.
Play 3rd Strike. It’s a good game.
We’re using this thread to promote other games now?