SSF4 is cursed with bad game design and Ultra won't change that

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

Disclaimer:

This is a huge wall of text and I’m not a native English speaker so excuse my shitty syntax, please.
Also I wanna say upfront that I think SF4’s core game mechanics are gorgeous as well as the depth that goes with it and I feel it is a great thinking man’s game.

See I haven’t played fighting games in 12 or 14 years and when I did I was pretty good at them relative to the 10 friends I had to play with (SF2, the MK series, Tekken 2-3 and Sc).
I could do combos and execute specials easily.
Now I’ve picked up SSF4 and I feel like fucking garbage and I totally am.
My gameplan with Ryu after 3 month or something consists of throwing fireballs, 2 hit combos like cr.strong>fireball and normals.

I’m not fucking able to do 1 or 2 frame links in a real game ever even though they work in practice mode most of the time.

Personally I enjoy the challenge and I’m confident that in another 3 month or less, I’ll have some combos down but I can also put myself into the mind of someone completely new to the genre who would just say: “Fuck it I can’t even play the fucking game on a very basic level unless I practice every day for several hours over half a fucking year and read forums and watch videos a ton.”

I mean the fucking franchise is over 20 years old and they still haven’t gotten it done to explain the gamer who picks it up for the first time how the game actually works, and there’s almost no simple as fuck combos that do a bit more damage than a normal and make you feel good about yourself?
With combos in this game it’s like either you can execute them 90 percent of the time or it’s not even worth using them since you leave yourself open to an attack or do less damage than doing a simple uppercut or cr.strong>fireball.
There’s no slow ramping up in difficulty for a higher reward. It’s either hit or miss.

I tried to get my girlfriend into the game and when she was in practice mode she couldn’t even understand wtf the symbol for the srk motion was even supposed to tell her at first sight and I couldn’t either until I tried the motion from SF2 memory and that stupid Z symbol doesn’t even show the correct way to do it for fucks sake…
None of the other symbols like the blue box or the lightning were explained anywhere and so she jumped into challenge mode, since it looked like it was some kind of tutorial in order to learn the game, but again nothing was explained and when she got past the special moves and ultras into basic links, she didn’t know what to do since nothing even explained her that you have to actually time the button presses.

Now in contrast to that we got MK9 at about the same time, she played it, started with the tutorials and mini games and they explained to her through playing how she gets her special moves work, how to do simple combos, how to extend them and how to do all the basic other shit you need in order to play the game against another human opponent and she felt good about herself.
She still thinks MK9 is a better game than SF4 and she feels like shes 10x better at it than at SF4 even though she played both for roughly the same amount of time.

Now that’s fucking shitty game design ladies and gentlemen and in my opinion the only thing that needs to be fixed with the game, among gameplay bugs, social interface and crappy online play.

Where in the actual fuck does this game need rebalancing when every major event consists of different characters in the top 8, and where characters like Gen and Zangief can win majors and Oni’s and Blanka’s can go top 8 any day?

If Capcom says their sales don’t warrant a SF5, maybe think about why people find the game so hard to get into and are hesitant to buy it and do something about it instead of blowing out the 4th incarnation of the same fucking game with the same garbage interface that only the people understand who are into the game for the past 20 years.

I’m not saying dumb the game down, I’m saying design it so it has decent a learning curve with proper tutorials/practice mode and slowly ramping up difficulty in terms of execution, while maintaining the same hard as fuck high level execution, rather than make learning the game feel like going to university and getting a major in science right after kindergarten.

Ultra won’t save the franchise, won’t bring in tons of new players and won’t save Capcom from bankruptcy.
The best it will do is keep the pro scene and hardcore SF fans on life support for another 1-2 years.

If anyone has a different opinion just let me know, since I’d really like to discuss this, rather than being just a blogpost where I blow off some steam.

2

Some thoughts on what you wrote:

There are definitely things wrong with the core mechanics of SF4. Ultra probably won’t change them though.

I think the SF series is very easy to get into and SF4 is no exception. I can imagine better teaching tools than what the game provides but this is a problem for most of the genre and is not SF4 specific. Good material exists from the fan community already, I think this is fine. The fan material is more plentiful, comprehensive, and well-done than a lot of learning material for older games so SF4 has a lot going for it when trying to welcome new players.

I don’t think anyone expects Ultra to save the series, but it probably also doesn’t need saving. It’s doing pretty well for itself. ST and 3S still see plenty of play around the world, and SF4 is still going strong in tournaments everywhere. Few other fighting game series have the same longevity.

I suspect there will probably be a SF5.

I agree the netcode sucks.

3

Before I started playing SF4 I was a Budokai 3 player, and it that game the only to do real damage is to perform overly long cancel combos otherwise you won’t amount to shit. Guess what, the cancel system is not even mentioned in the game. And in the US version of Budokai 3 there was no move list so you had to find out combos on your own.

Now we’re in 2013 where you can find everything on the internet, how is it hard to get the information you need and proceed? Having it all explained in the game is a wase of space, instead focus on what’s important, a good quality game with a solid netcode

4

Having a clear and concise tutorial will in no way inhibit or impede good game design. Why NOT have it in the game?

5

Tutorial wouldn’t hurt I think. Specially since SF4 feels considerably less complicated then a game like Persona 4 Arena, or Darkstalkers, which do give those things.

6

There is only one GOOD reason to not have it: $$$$

Obviously creating and implementing a tutorial mode adds cost to the development process which could go to other areas that would potentially make the game better for long time players (alternate game modes, more refined balance, improved netcode, ect) however there is no guarantee that the extra cost WOULD go to those things.

Other than just the fact it adds cost to development there is no other good reason. None. Even if many people DO ignore tutorials, many others actually do them and it can help bring new blood into a series or even new players into the genre itself. Ultimately a good tutorial can do a lot of good things for the game and community.

7

I’d like a tutorial for the game, not because I need one but because it would at least make people feel like they’re making progress.

The manual? But no one reads that, I guess.

8

Exactly. But we are too lazy to read, so let’s just complain.

And regarding the combo complain - that’s the whole point, you want bigger dmg, you need to put some work. It seems to me you want high reward for no work…and it’s not working this way.

And about MK vs SF - MK is almost dead. It’s definetelly not a model to follow.

SF4 is a very easy game to get into. Yeah, more tutorials would be nice, but you can find them if you look a little. Both SRK and Eventhubs have plenty, plenty of tutorials on youtube.

9

And as a fellow Budokai player, I shouldn’t need to tell you how many people have no idea the cancel system even exists in the first place. It’s a shame because Budokai 3’s tutorial mode is exceptionally well-done, they just neglect to so much as mention the one mechanic that you NEED to know if you want to get anywhere with the game. Sharing advanced tech on the internet is always a thing, but basic mechanics need to be explained in-game so the player at least has a starting point.

10

This is what i’m talking about, having an in-depth tutorial because scrubs are to lazy to read and find the information on their own is more important than other areas that are crucial for long term players?

11

Stop trying to be an elitist asshole.

It’s one thing to look at a manual and just see what buttons your are suppose to push, and another to actually see what its suppose to do and how it is suppose to look etc…

I don’t think OP was complaining about combos and whining about dmg. If you actually read his post he went on to mention he actually likes that the game is hard and appreciates it; but also understands the the game lacks any real grounds for someone who has never played a fight game to even ease into fundamentals none the less an FADC ultra… (he also mentions that he is going to put in time and eventually get the combos down)

There is a ton of info on the net that’s true. (funny also how capcom throws their lawyers around when people put up free tuts) However, how is one suppose to know where to look or what to look for if they don’t even know what the heck they are doing, or hasn’t really been in a gaming community.

I think OP was just sharing an opinion on how they could add some content, not only to get new blood into the game, but also keep them interested in the game after they get smashed by someone repeatedly online who only has 50 more pp than them. It’s true, most people that play street fighter and are still playing is because they picked it up during SF2 not because they picked up Arcade Edition.

12

Before reading post and just commenting on title, umhmm. Theyre making engine changes, so I hope that changes stuff, Poison is in it, and hopefully going with the SF 2 direction theyll make this one crazy ass fun game like ST.

13

I’ve been playing NSUS3 recently, while they do mention the cancel system they don’t actually show how it is performed. In the SF4 manual they explain FADC and how it’s done, it’s up to you to practice it and make it work.

14

A whole lot of good it did for Blazblue :coffee:

15

I don’t understand some of this fuss. SF4 is really not hard to get into. hard to play well, hard to execute difficult things, yeah sure. but SF4 is very easy to pick up and play and understand what’s going on, same as SF2 and 3. it’s really easy to make connections and understand cause and effect, and alter your behavior in response. maybe fighting games in general are dense and difficult to pick up for a newcomer, but SF is generally not. the hard stuff comes later as you try to improve, not when you buy it and invite your friend over to play. games like P4A for example definitely need to explain all the systems and tools in-game because games like that can be pretty dense. SF main series is very simple in comparison and it reveals itself naturally through play and learning.

what specifically do you guys want out of a hypothetical teaching mode?

16

The computer does it on any level Hard or higher though.

Goku and Cell especially are monsters at it and will even do the “stun cancel ->go behind you combo” that baffled the hell out of me and my bro when were younger.

But when we figured it out it was delicious.

Back on topic, SF4 IS pretty intimidating to people who don’t know much about fighting games, most of friends tried and then navigated back to MK and Injustice.

I think when you drop FADC’s on people they get overwhelmed. (I did it on accident to save myself)

17

Blazblue gets hurt by the anime community being shutins and not traveling to events. I’ve heard stories of guys not showing up to events in their own city because of scheduled netplay sessions.

18

Why not both?

http://img2u.info/ckgni/i/geef30bab.png

Basic mechanics aren’t the kind of thing that a player should have to go look up on the internet. If not an in-game tutorial, the least they could do is put some info in the manuals. It’s not about people being too lazy to look stuff up, it’s about being expected to do stuff in a game that doesn’t even point you in the right direction. If a game doesn’t even so much as do that, it’s doing an objectively bad job of educating the player.

19

I’m not an elitist by any means, son. Almost everybody will tell you that SF4 is a very easy game to pick up - why do you think is so popular ?

I’m sorry, but the manual is actually very usefull. It is also explaining the FADC system. And you forget one very important thing - that most of us started just like him. I played SF2 when I was little, but then I got serious into FGs with SF4. There are literary TONS of tutorials for SF4 and for every character - you want to learn the fadc into Ultra ? How about just google for it ? you will find instantly plenty of help. But I guess people just want to be spoonfed.
My only problem when I started SF4 was that there were too many tutorials.

20

The only thing that I think that SF4 could do better would be explaining what the hell a link is, and why they are useful to learn. Like, just from playing the game itself, my older brother (who has kids + wife + full-time job + no desire to look outside of the game for additional tutorials) is rather competent in MK9 and Injustice, but is super free in SF4, although he’s been playing fighters as long as I have. There’s a distinct difference between spoonfeeding your audience and giving them useful information.