Because, you know, Justin Bieber is that great a musician.
Yes, at anything above lowest level of play SF4 is highly technical and doesn’t have room for any middle ground. If you want a smooth execution curve you’d be better of with almost any other fighting game.
How successful something is has no relevance in criticism. If you have something to say, give real reasons.
Actually in the context of this discussion his argument is valid. A product’s design matters a lot when it comes to sales.
Hello to everyone. As my first post, this is the best thread because I feel concerned. Like ArtVandelay, before SFIV, I hadn’t play fighting games for years (except on MAME) and I found the combo very disturbing. See, I played from SF2 in 1991 to SSF2X and combos were not the same. Of course, came Killer Instinct and MK3 but it’s not really the same. You know, only pushing buttons is easier.
When I discovered trials, I was like : ex cancel? WTF? Then I stopped trying (ok lazy man).
Later I saw Daigo’s video and though SF champ is just a fireball spammer! Then I saw the combos : ex tatsu followed with a ultra. Then a Dragon Punch -> ultra. And when I first made a local tournament, it was a total disaster. Gameplay is no more the same (it is called evolution my friend). A guy who watched me play recognize the “old school way” (let’s call it that way) and invite me to his store for gaming session where he taught me combos, FADC -> Ultra, option select.
I admit, it is hard and it sill is, but you have to train… a damn lot. I mean it. It is not playing 1 or 2 hours a week than will improve your skill but per day. Then go to site like this one and learn about basic.
Forget your old play and remake your basis, that’s the key.
yeah well it’s a pretty bold declaration from someone who is bad and not qualified to comment on sf4’s game design or competitive balance~
This title is inflammatory.
But OP has some good points. Ergonomics and tutorials are not the strong point of this game.
25 years of 2D fighting games are difficult to teach, though. A large population of gamers only experienced action games through super-intuitive ergonomics (1-button heroism, dial-in QTEs…) and they have trouble with SF4 qcf and srk motions, let alone cancels.
A lack of a proper tutorial is what led my friends away from getting into street fighter and into the arms of MK9.
Honestly I think it’s pretty stupid that there is nothing that resembles a tutorial in that game. When players have to go to YouTube to learn how to play your game, I think you’ve fucked up.
Maybe it is your time management, or the forum time/gameplay time ratio to be precise…
Problems are not with qcf and SRK, but with shortcuts. Double tapping down back and you SRK easy. That means that some may “dragonpunching” rather than doing ultras, thing that din’t exist in SSF2X
SFIV missed the ball on teaching people how to play the game through the game. That’s where Skullgirls and Killer Instinct are picking up from.
I just chose a provocative thread title in order to get more people to read it and discuss, sorry if I offended anyone.
I’m gonna answer later this night since time is short and I gotta do some real life shit.
It’s not the core gameplay design I mean which I think is great, it’s everything leading to it that I think is poorly crafted.
Welcome to fighting games of the last 10 years. It’s only now that they are realizing they can do better.
They’re changing almost nothing about the engine, just adding in 5 characters, some stages, rebalancing some characters. Nothing like removing crouch tech, and it’s not even been confirmed that they’re removing the 1-frame unblockables.
Well if we’re talking input systems Skullgirls is damn near perfect. Nothing too hard and no shortcuts to mess up with.
I think SFIV is supreme.
well, has it been confirmed that they’re not changing the engine? they kept us in the dark on just about everything, so don’t say something like that without proof.
Fair enough. But it’s extremely unlikely that they’re going to change the engine in Ultra after keeping it the same for the past 4 years.
SF does need a better explanation. I remember when I first played SF3, which I think was the 2nd Impact ver., and parrying made no sense to me. I didn’t like it, and I don’t remember the game explaining how it functioned. They could have put something in the attract mode with word bubbles, and examples, and that would have been way better to teach.
As for Street Fighter 4, yeah, the training mode needs a walkthrough for new players. Vesper Arcade’s tutorial should be simplified and the style should be added to every SF. That said, just because one game explains itself better doesn’t mean it is better.
Someone might be able to explain how a bicycle works to another person more easily than explaining how a car works, but that wouldn’t make the bicycle better than the car. The bicycle’s controls may be more intuitive and easier to learn to use than the car’s controls, but that doesn’t make it better. The car is better, you (not you) just don’t understand how to use it yet, and the car maker is shipping its cars with a flimsy manual.
The bicycle gets training wheels on it, and you can instantly use it, and even when the training wheels come off, you just need a few days of training to get good. The car ,on the other hand, requires more knowledge to operate. Therefore, using the car requires more extensive teaching.
Just learn to play the fucking game, man. People that complain like Hell just don’t know how to play.
i couldnt agree or disagree competently whit OP post honestly cos ive come from where he is however there are some few points i can think of for why its somehow wrong :
you have to accept the game mechanics ,combo system and and links , if you dont agree with these basic things , dont even play it , it is what it is , you may wanna try something else other than SF4 ( and yes easier because thats your main concern ) , lots of peoples think that the in depth system is very good ( while not being perfect ) , it took me lots of time and practice overall with the game to understand how hard it must have been to achieve/create that ,and i have yet played something that come even close , the only exception might be KOF13 ,and its still a bit far from SF4 in term of polishing and design
also remember that the game is freaking old, when it came out it already had some form of tutorial trials and shit , i cant remember any fighter having the same form of help that came out at the same time as vanilla SF4 , peoples just started to learn it more in depth by themselves and all of that usually ending on the internet , everything literally can be found in this very forums or another one within a few clicks , so why would CAPCOM waste money on such things while not being sure to grow the fan base ?
well lets agree that the game is hard without in depth tutorial , take SFxT , its 10x time easier than SF4 with very easy links and i dont think you need in depth explanations to press 4 buttons in a row , you literally can win while mashing random shit , and if you want to progress you learn it more deeply … guess what peoples though about it ? ITS SUCKS , OHH !
i had very very hard times adapting to SF4 links/combo systems , let alone FADC dash , wich made completely no sense to me in term of execution … the thing is that i was just too bad at execution , now i can take evil ryu and combo with him all across the screen , i still need practice , and yes 1-3 frames links online are like baits , but you have to accept it , it is what it is
and no you dont need super complex combo to win , NOT AT ALL actually , heavy combos arnt that rewarding actually except for some characters/specific situation/setup , you can easily make your way doing cr.lk>cr.lp>hk tatsu with ryu , or just FADC shoryu>mets , damn just look at Daigo , do you see him often do tons of super combo ? the only time where he does that is when he completely dominate his opponent , rest of the time , its whiff punish and very efficient/simple combos
i would love to get something like 3 tiers of trials for example , not explanation about the system , just different trials , because they are very very helpful to understand all the mechanics ,and thats how i learned alot about the game , just while trying every trial…
the actually implemented Trials could be like TIER 1 > easy ( MINUS THE LAME SHIT THAT YOU’LL NEVER USE IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN )
TIER 2 > could introduce more complex combos and 3-frames links
TIER 3 > GODLIKE , if you complete this shit , you’re the man , you’re execution dosnt need much more than this
but even this can be a problem since not all characters can have thats much of combos… but lets say more complex trials exist , take KOF13 trials for example , this shit is fucking hard , its no joke , the hardest actually implemented SF4 trials are nothing compared to the ones that you can find in KOF13 , does that encouraged me to complete theme ? not at all i stopped at 3-4 for Iori and Kyo , i still plan to do them , but damn , that shit is hard ,and am sure others would react like me
TLDR; having everything in front of you will not help accepting the fact that you need sacrifices/time and efforts