you can punish it. period. and you cant compare different characer’s movesets without taking into account all factors. for instance has gen low hp + stun no good reversal, does low damage + stun etc. every “squishy” character in this game has some kind of speed move, or defensive tool to escape pressure.
also
IT COST A F+CKING EX BAR. >_<
Just because you can’t punish it in the same conventions as other moves doesn’t mean it’s broke. Ex-oga is easily reacted to and punished. Shit has recovery, period.
Capcom won’t see your suggestion. If you want them to see it go post in the capcom unity threads. Though I doubt they’ll consider it.
I’d take Teleport over EX oga any day. Both can be baited if you play vs someone who always tries to teleport or EX oga out. Both can be punished both have pros both have cons. The biggest pro/con is the fact that teleport costs nothing, as where EX oga used meter. EX Oga in vanilla was a tool with fair trade pros/cons IMO.
//update
if the cMK in the cLK>cMK target is still cancellable this is going to be really good!
Scrubby suggestions? Sure, I got some. Extra scrubby and free of charge.
Gen’s main problem IMO is that his risk/reward ratio is terrible, and it’s terrible because his damage output [is bad] and his wakeup options are far too weak for his low health. So up his damage and fix his wakeup, toss in a minor tweak or two to normals and specials, and he’ll be fine.
Target combos are great. Those two alone will up his damage and meter building by quite a bit (provided that the last hit stays special-cancellable). I’d also tweak hk gekiro hitbox so that it’s not character specific in combos.
For wakeup, I’d up his invulnerability window on lk gekiro to 5 frames and drop ex gekiro startup to 3 frames. Obviously old ex oga would solve the wakeup issue once and for all but I doubt that it’s gonna happen.
This way, lk gekiro is fully invulnerable but can be safejumped, ex gekiro is much faster and can’t be safejumped, and hk gekiro is preferred in combos for max damage. Add FADC to that and his wakeup can go a long, long way.
I’d tweak hands slightly too. LP hands should have less hitstun/blockstun but also less pushback, this way we still don’t have hands loops but hands are more useful for pressure. We should be able to do lp hands after target combo, let’s say, and still be at +2 for instance and in a range where we actually can continue pressure. HP hands should stay the same but fix the hitbox so that you get all hits on crouchers and can FADC after the 4th hit in all cases.
Also tweak the hitbox on crane s.lp so that it won’t whiff on crouchers after crane j.mk crossup. This way it will be a viable hitconfirm for crane c.lk on every character.
There should be more range on mantis c.mp. This will help his footsies without bringing hands loops back.
And fix the goddamn landing stance change glitch. It’s been years now.
A message to Ono:
The one thing i’m unhappy about with Gen is the fact that meter is far more costly than any other character. Another character could easily get a super long before Gen ever could. Up his meter gain by 10%, that ought to make it worth using EX-geriko if you ever intended to make EX-geriko his preferred reversal/wake-up option. Otherwise, Gen is simply already dead on wake-up.
lets not forget that ex oga is a charge move that takes longer to charge than moves with similar input.
if akuma and seth can have a reliable dp and a teleport, why couldn’t gen have the same?
Basically these, with important stuff mentioned in bold.
Also:
EXFA(DC) should be possible after (KKK) s.LP, c.LK. It still screws Gen when he messes up, or wants to go for (KKK) Ultra1.
3-frame startup on (PPP) c.LP or c.LK , so he has a good use for those target combo’s and doesn’t struggle against chars like Dictator/Chun so much.
MP/HP Jyasen should connect fully after (PPP) s.MP, (KKK) c.MP.
Crane needs an overall buff. Make his s.mk act like dudleys, forward Hp.(The one where he slides forward) Comes out slow but gives a lot of blockstun. Or maybe cancelable.
Some safer pokes aside from c.lp would help too.
I just picked up Gen so my knowledge is kind of noobish, but overall I think Gen needs:
Faster/better way to charge EX. His supers are too importaint to turning the tide of the game (at least for me). If that is going to be a selling point for him I’d like to have access to the super before round 2.
improved crane style. overall i feel vurnerable in this stance and run back to mantis the second i get nervous. The two styles need a better balance. This may be my inexperience talking but it seems some people here agree.
3)Ultra 1 Mantis should go through fireballs. Half the cast can ultra through fireballs. This move LOOKS like it should…and it should.
It can but timing is super tight on reaction. If you are waking up and they throw a projectile you will go through it. However, it’s not as good as Super. Which I think needs to be fixed so it has more projectile invincibility
I’ve always wanted to follow up the double crane jumping rh with something other than super/ultra. Gekiro would be nice, just saying hahaha. Would end up being about 250 dmg if that could happen :D.
^
That might allow us to use J.hk again, and again and again! Unless I don’t know it’s properties right.
So…the projectile has to be on top of you practically as you get up? right?
Been a long time. Thought I’d add my 2 cents. I already agree with most of the comments above. For me, I’d like to see:
Old Mantis Jump: I remember reading that the reason for the change was that Gen’s Mantis and Crane jumps seemed too similar in SF4. Honestly, I felt that the jump arcs were one of the primary differences between the styles in SF4. The loss of the Mantis jump really ruined the fun of playing Gen for me. I don’t mind losing mk > hands or ex-Oga nearly as much as this.
Old meter Gain: It seems that we are all in agreement over this one. I played some SF4 the other day and had my Super ready at the end of round 1 each time. This would give us two supers if the game went to three rounds. I know Gen has some of the best supers in the game, but I think his lack of health/stun make up for that. He needs to do a lot more damage in order to make up for his inability to take big damage.
Something resembling chains: I know Gen is supposed to be a difficult character to master, and perhaps target combos might seem too easy for such a technical character. However, I think a good compromise would be to just add more links overall, and make his current links a tad easier to time. I always thought that it would make sense for Gen to have a lot of links, but they would get tighter, with fewer frames in-between, as you go from light to medium to heavy.
Make HK Gekiro work the same on each character. This doesn’t make sense at all to me, especially against Guile–a top tier character…
I also agree with making c.mp have a little longer reach. C.mp is a tad slower than s.MK and could work as a great long range poke when canceled to hands. It works so well against focus attacks. What if Mantis s.MK returns to its SF4 form with longer range and 70 damage, but it loses its ability to cancel into hands? Make Mantis c.MP have a little longer range and it could become a great tool to add pressure in close range. If we had something close to Alpha chain combos and the old jump arc, I don’t think we even need MK > Hands.
I know it’s a stretch, but I’d love to see Mantis Ultra 2’s properties change. I think it’s really not worth the risk unless you just want to watch the amazing animation. The concept was to make your opponent take unnecessary risks, however, I feel that I’m the one under pressure in order to maximize the damage done. This often leads to me chasing my opponent all over the screen which is one of the worst positions Gen can be in. I think it would be better to make Mantis Ultra 2 similar to the Alpha series version. Gen has great keep away tools when spaced properly and can really punish mistakes. My suggestion would be to have the ultra do 1/2 of the full damage right away, then have the rest turn to gray damage over time until your opponent hits Gen or Gen gets a hit. This would reintroduce the risk/reward element that Capcom was looking for. Do you let your opponent chase you while the gray damage builds or do you go for an attack right away.
Dear Ono,
I play Gen, I love Gen. Everybody I play also loves Gen, because they think he is a free win. I play hard, and I lose often. I cannot punish hard. I cannot make mistakes without losing half my health bar when I play good opponents. My punishes are slow and weak. I miss my jump arc that made me unique. I hate mk => hands now because its really hard to execute. My mixups are slow. My two stances should offer enough tools to mixup more often than other characters, but they dont. My anti air normals are hard to use. My ex moves are only good for anti projectiles and anti safe jumps, ex hands isnt worth it unless I can execute mk => hands combo. My mantis super is wonderful, and my crane super is easy to land, but ex bar is really hard to collect. Most of crane stances normals are useless especially c.hp reguardless if it can combo into crane super. Gouken is known to be my best matchup and the best Gouken on the US East Coast is a personal friend of mine... T_T Thank you for nerfing blanka balls because I cant seem to punish them <3
Please bring us some good news reguarding our favorite A3 character: Gen
Thank you!
exactly!
I loved his Mantis Jump, and personally, I feel like Gen’s new jump should stay for Crane.
I mean, it’s his CRANE style! A crane is a type of bird with skinny legs. It makes sense.
But Mantis seems more aggressive, and I loved his old Mantis jump. His jump also makes sense.
And HK Geriko, plz, make it work for ALL character, and if that’s not that case, then at least make it a reliable AA option.
I’m tired of whiffing on characters such as Guile who can do a Flashkick, and take a chunk out of my life!
Not to mention, Guile players can FADC into U2.
Nobody should have to pay such a price for whiffing a move that began as a hit combo in the first place!
Hell, it’s like saying Sagat can Tiger Uppercut you, and even on hit someone can punish with Ultra!!
yeah actually the hitbox on HK and MK gekiro pretty much sux… it trades too much as an AA (more reliable in vanilla, at least it seems :/)… slow ass startup and even worse hitbox