Well, atleast they didn’t change much for Gen. Besides info on the old man is still very sparse.
Capcom decided that it’d be a wonderful idea to remove Seth’s J.hp and make his U1 blockable with projectiles, awesome.
warlike i think i notice something, i wonder if you find another character will capcom take that said character tools away and make him a new character like gen and seth. but yea i dont agree with some of the weird ass changes like seith or blanka. although i still hate blanka, the blanka balls where already punishable by a lot of the cast anyway. i dont see a reason why they change that either but like the thing says it a test.
street fighter 4 may be balance but that becuse they take all the characters solid tools away from the old games it seem. at least in my eyes that what i see.
Not so much as take away solid tools from the old games, but they seem to be thinking that drasticall changes are the only way to balancing/finetuning the characters. Like removing a keymove from the previous installments and replacing it with some other move etc. But in my opinion small changes are all that is needed, and maybe for characters like Gen (that need some extra balancing) some big changes are definately welcome.
yea i hope gen gets some big changes, i do want him to play more like alpha gen. like make his fucking roll able to punish the god damn fireballs. personalty i hate when i guess something right and i somehow still get punish haha.
They should remove Mk>Hands and Make him Faster and have chain combos like in the alpha series, Gen looks like a damn turtle in ssf4, Alpha 2 Gen walkspeed was the fastest and his normals were very fast, S.HP > Hands on wakeup was very nice, you could push back the opponent and do some decent damage.
He should be able to do a Nice Damaging combo using only normals and not special moves.
Like J.mk, c.lp, c.lk, c.mk, c.hp.
And gekiro recovery is ass in ssf4.
Give Mantis Crane walk and Crane even faster, Shiitenketsu up to 550 damage minimum, meter gain increase… Do something to buff his roll.
It’s still early stage of AE, But it looks like they’re attempting to bring Gen closer to Alpha3. Yet giving only a few links and faster u2 isn’t enough…I would like them to give some of his crane normals a purpose…Possible to have Float state when used as AA? or even during a combo, or maybe on counter-hit like cr.HP… cr.HK cr.MK s.LK s.LP comes to mind since a few of these are relative decent AA normals but simply horrible when used on the ground unless canceled with Charged Special move(rare occasions). Giving it a float state on hit would grant a better possible way to land Crane/MantisU1/CraneU2/Super(so far Crane Super cancel from S.lk/cr.MK still holds no purpose) while also granting a possible follow-up with other special moves besides resetting the situation. This would increase his Potential dmg output by only a small percentage, but its better then relying on only loops and links for a character that already has to deal with large reversal window and no wake-up, meter gain.
As of right now Crane needs a overhaul more then Mantis. Tweaking Mantis U2 i want to see the Timer countdown return it encouraged the opponent to be aggressive…Focus damage encourages turtling and provides no stun…If the timer doesn’t come back at least they could do is add high stun damage with Focus damage, making it more useful if by chance you can combo’d into it and gained a free stun on top of focus damage that can be taken away if they’re dizzy would at least bring homage to the original version. Looking at the [media=youtube]GlIVq9jRIOA&feature=related#t=2m40s[/media]
suggestions:
- ex-oga: it made sense to nerf vanilla ex-oga since the full invincibility made it degenerate (i.e. it was close to 100% unpunishable failsafe escape even when predicted), but with projectile invincibility alone ex-oga is almost irrelevant. the fact that it could “pass-through” opponents until wall made for interesting gameplay but lack of strike-invincibility eliminates this dynamic. here are some options to rebalance it that would reassert its usefulness and still make for interesting gameplay:
- make it strike-invincible (or full-invinc) only on specific frames based on button press. e.g. LK+MK could be strike invincible on first 20 frames, MK+HK only after the first 20 frames, etc. with this approach could also make LK+HK not strike invincible but make the kick recover quickly on whiff / even frames on block. this option is the most interesting and easiest to balance / implement.
- rather than invincibility, make strike hurtbox available but significantly smaller over entire animation e.g. small hurtbox low to the ground or just on his head on startup, or displace it to the left or right depending on direction of oga, etc. perhaps only make hurtbox available for short time like in above. the goal here is to make it a viable option to evade pressure with timing, spacing, etc. the risk is it would take alot of tuning / implementation time to identify the right hurtbox size to make it useful and relevant
- make it strike-invincible to wall but not throw-invincible (mostly affecting startup frames before leaving ground). this would be the easiest to implement but least interesting, and ex-oga would still be at risk of being degenerate
- in lieu of strike-invincibility to wall make ex-oga kick recovery faster (option 1 is much better)
- slightly improve mantis mk hitbox (minor range increase is enough, vanilla range was degenerate)
everything else is fine. excited to hear about possible target combos
or just make it like it was? that was no way op. the fact alone that you had to spend a meter was enough kept it balanced.
100% failsafe escape? since when? Akuma could walk up sweep, Sagat kara knee/uppercut, Bison U2, Chun could walk up sweep, Ken Ex tatsu, Fuerte Ultra etc. Everybody could block/punish if you did a dive kick. Am I missing something here?
it was degenerate in the sense that it eliminates mini-games that are key part of what makes street fighter interesting. namely, dealing with pressure once you’re at a disadvantage from blockstun or wakeup. although it wasn’t op in the sense that it won games on its own or made gen broken, it reduced alot of the complexity that makes the game interesting. just like how vanilla mantis mk eliminated the variety of pokes and reduced some matchups to just dominating that one footsie zone. while it also didn’t make gen auto-op it made gameplay (as gen or against him) overall less dynamic. capcom or any game designer looks to increase mini-game complexity, and any options that oversimplify the decision tree are worth removing not because they make you win but because they make gameplay repetitive and uninteresting.
ex-oga only affected the ascent to the wall, not the kick, which is optional anyway. the failsafe escape is that you can get out of there with multiple step decision options* to evade pressure. ex-oga kick is no different than regular oga kick, which is not the issue at hand for the balance discussion.
EDIT: * what i’m referring to is the choice of which wall to go to, followed by close or far kicks, ceiling left mid or right kicks, or ceiling neutral fall. these follow ups can be decided serially depending on how your opponent reacts, and the net effect was a nearly failsafe escape (some guessing games exist to punish but heavily in gen’s favor). as a defensive option against pressure this move was the most degenerate i’ve seen in any well-balanced fighting game, in that it could eliminated huge branches of normal gameplay. in high level play alot of rounds are decided on 1 or 2 successful series of pressure, initiated by knockdown, blockstun, corner advantage, etc - 1 ex bar is not much to reset rather than defending correctly
teleport someone? oh and that doesnt cost meter btw.
Dealing with pressure? Shoryukens? Lariat? Ex-Grabs? All are punishable ways of dealing with pressure. Ex-oga isn’t any different than these.
I know that…I was talking about the drop down. I put in the dive kick because sometimes people would do that when they ex-oga’d out.
pssst… The part where everyone in the gen forums is retarded…
oh…right…
ex-oga is much much harder to punish than shoryuken, lariat, ex-grabs etc. its a completely different mechanic so not the best comparison, but shoryuken, lariat, etc as reversals if you guess wrong or get baited you eat a full combo or ultra. if you guess wrong or get baited with ex-oga you can easily get to safety, counterattack, or worse case if opponent tries to punish you play a guessing game heavily in gen’s favor since you can decide how to wall dive incrementally
teleport is much much easier to punish than ex-oga; while its clearly powerful its much easier to counter either through os or as guessing game / baiting. the important distinction is that you can’t reliably punish ex-oga even if you predict it, and in fact have to be concerned about being kicked while trying to.
lol good reminder. i’m writing in hopes that capcom sees my suggestion (option 1), not to convince the srk audience.