Yeah I just slide off lp and hit it again on the way back, got it in my muscle memory for whenever I use c.mp instead of mk. I’m still worried it’s going to be awkward doing the hp mk target combo to slide hands. I’ll have to see I guess. What worries me is I dunno how the crap I’m gonna plink from mp to hp target combo… I dunno if plinking even works with target combos.
Just played a lot of games of AE yesterday, and I used Gen’s mantis s.HK a lot. I really like it a lot now. Feels like Sakura’s, since it hits a lot of people who see the startup frames and try to counter poke it, but it comes out really fast and usually hits whatever they throw out.
Also, c.MP > Hands is the greatest thing ever. I find myself never using MK > Hands anymore.
about that very move: no AE here still, but I’m starting to use this move in super to beat lows in footsies with moderate success. I know its speed increased in AE, but did the range increase too? If so it’s really gold!
The range increased and the removed his lower hurt box so it stuffs lowes clean. It will beat ryus low forward and zangiefs low roundhouse. It’s much better now.
i’ve never quite understood why people were talking about no lower hurtbox on the new mantis sHK, i’ve always assumed it was about the kicking leg’s hurtbox, when they were talking about “no hittable box on his ankle”… not the other leg
and now this… http://media.eventhubs.com/images/2011/02/15_blog06.jpg
it doesnt look like it changed much, both his hurtbox and hitbox were slightly moved forward, so if thats accurate the move should now have slightly more range and a faster startup… but its still going to have its same lower vulnerable hurtbox
well i’ve always thought it was too good to be true, i really wasnt expecting that hurtbox removal buff
http://h-3.abload.de/img/mantis_stand_hkvf7a.jpeg For comparison to super. I’m sad too. The range has increased, but so has his hurtbox. I’m not so sure you can say the startup is faster though from looking at this (though in my experience, I kind of feel like it is).
Oh well, still an incredibly good poke. I murder lots of flinchy people with it.
no well… about the startup i refer to the dev blog update from some weeks (months?) ago… and yea as you said many players felt like it comes out faster, as we can also see in AE videos
anyway… the famous improvements Seth Killian talked about, regarding Crane normals… they don’t exist, do they?
Update on character specific TC->HK Gekiro:
Whiff: Dan, DeeJay, Fei Long, Blanka, Chun, Yun, Yang, Ibuki, Viper, (All Shotos?)
Hit: Guy, Makoto, Cody, Dudley, T Hawk, Hakan, Cammy, Seth, Juri
I’ll try to get the rest of the cast in as I encounter them vs CPU.
Other notes: Roll is still punishable on block by shoryu. Sometimes if you roll on them at mid-screen, on block you’ll either get free or only take part of the shoryu (ken’s mp and hp shoryu will hit once and allow you to punish hard). I think this was the same as it was in Super. I would just use it the exact same way since it doesn’t seem to have changed much.
The addition of the Hp->Mk TC in mantis was a boon to Gen. It helps immensely with his meter building and has really helped his damage output. In cases where the character specific TC->HK Gekiro works, the damage increase is incredible… and the added meter gain from landing it also helps him stock up super and ex Gekiros faster.
There are some high damage fadc combos, such as S.mp->TC->Hands->FADC->S.mp->TC->Gekiro that I like to do, and the meter gain makes it viable. Just a little execution heavy, but everyone gets it with practice.
I think Seth was full of shit when he said crane normals had changes. It feels exactly like SSFIV. The main change has been U2 Crane’s speed. It’s very hard to Air-to-air ultra someone if they’re jumping at you. Because you travel so fast, you will usually end up falling beneath them.
I’ll try to write more about AE. If you have any questions still, I can try to answer them. I’m extremely eager to get a home port of AE.
The old man seems so much more viable but he still has his problems. These are mostly shitty development flaws, but I have some personal gripes:
-Needs a faster Mantis c.lk (gripe)
-He needs hitbox and frame advantage changes to currently irrelevant crane normals
-They need to fix the stance-change landing glitch!
-There is almost no reason to use certain normal attacks and certain jumping attacks.
-There is no reason to ever use mk Gekiro.
-Why is EX Oga projectile invincible up to the wall, but not at all afterwards (where he needs it)?
-His mantis super sometimes put him at a distance that doesn’t allow for Gekiro follow-ups.
-U2 Crane is not at all strike invincible, even on start up (personal gripe).
-Is there really any reason for the range of his focus attack to be reduced while in Crane? I’m not certain why this is.
-Even on hit, mp and hp roll will drop hits and allow the opponent to block if not done point blank or on CH. This leads to the roll being unsafe to SPD, Ultras, and Shoryu->FADC.
-U2 Mantis has a lowered hitbox, sure, but what was the purpose of this change? Think about it. They said it was to hit crouching/lowered opponents at the start of active frames, but what combos do we have into the ultra that this was a factor? There are less than 5 members of the cast that allow us to have a character specific combo into U2 Mantis, and it’s because they have large or strange vulnerable hurtboxes… and these only work when they’re standing; It wasn’t because they were crouching. I think the change to this ultra was made to encourage using it randomly, which is bad design. It’s start up and range don’t encourage using it on reaction to c.forwards… so that argument for the change is irrelevant. It doesn’t have an extremely long invincibility period, so it loses to attacks with lowered hurtboxes (like Vega U2)… which kinda makes the dev changes seem completely uninformed and rushed.
-Too many of his standard B&Bs are character specific. Pretty much anything ending in Gekiro, his only damaging non-meter combo ender, requires extensive knowledge of who it will whiff on. (gripe)
- U2 Mantis It still drops full animation if you do it too late after mantis super. Does anyone know why this is? Are there multiple hitboxes for the ultra that leads to full cinematic, and another that leads to knockback? Or is it something about the falling properties of the mantis super after a certain period of time… could you even do that? Maybe juggle potential changes with time? It’s a strange question.
Even with his limited buffs in AE, Gen seems to have been (g)engineered for failure.
Thank you very much Vanesco, for new information.
Dev Blog had mentioned they had reduced the hurtboxes in some of Crane’s normals, so it’s not just Seth.
From my experience, for EX Oga, it’s just mechanics of the game. Up to the wall is the first part, but the kicking part is the second part. That’s why it gains meter if you hit someone. It’s just like how Dictator’s EX DR works. The going up part costs a meter, and if you want to hit the opponent with the EX attack, you need another EX meter. In this game, anytime you input a command to do a follow-up, it accounts as a new move and thus applies combo scaling, and it will strip you from your EX status (EX CoD, EX DR, etc. I think the exceptions are Fei Long’s EX Rekka, in which combo scaling still applies i think, and Guy’s EX Run follow-ups). Not sure about the near kick though.
For Mantis U2, I think the buff is there because U2 fanatics like me complained so much when we successfully baited Blanka’s U1 to block on the way up and got hit cuz the first hit of the Ultra didn’t connect to the creature when we reversaled as he was coming down lol.
I always dropped Super -> Mantis U2 when I did NOT cancel into Ultra during the Super’s ending frames. Cancel -> Success, Link -> Failure.
If you do not mind, would you test for us whether Roll xx FADC (forward dash) on block still puts you at -2?
Alright street: I’ll ask a friend to mash shoryu on block after a roll fadc. I’ll let you know how it goes… but I’m almost certain they didn’t change roll.
Devs said they did a hurtbox reduction of Mantis S.Hk, but that was wrong. It’s not lower-body invincible. They just moved his hitbox forward to the end of his foot. I’ve tried using Crane S.mk and S.Hk to counter stuff like blanka balls and shoto c.mk, but the hurtbox seems the exact same. Until we get the console dlc, I don’t think they’ve done a damn thing to Crane normals and specials.
I’m not sure what you mean about U2 against blanka’s U1. Are you trying to hit him with it when he’s landing from his initial? Does that work now in AE? We all know it never went to full animation on an air hit, so i’m not sure when you were using it.
My comments about U2 mantis were to show that the buff was mainly meant to encourage using it as a random super, which is extremely bad design. With it’s start up, inability to do damage even on hit if they’re airborne, no setups for it, and no range… it’s just for use in hitting character specific combos with it and as a punish. The change to it’s hitbox is completely irrelevant.
I was also asking if anyone knew why U2 doesn’t go into full animation when you don’t do it immediately after Mantis super. Especially with it’s new lowered hitbox. I have no idea how developers did this… does the juggle potential change over time after the Mantis Super? Or does U2 have multiple hitboxes for full animation vs knock-back?
(More importantly, why? But who knows why Capcom shits on Gen.)
If it is a manipulation of juggle potential, are there follow ups (and setups) we’re not aware of?
is Mantis sMP, sHP, EX Hands, sHK possible now? Since the hitbox has been changed. I’ve yet to be able to hit anyone with it after HP EX hands, HP Pushes them back toofar. but I was thinking if you end up doing HP instead of MK it’s still possible to get max damage.
Also maybe I missed this… but someone was saying they are happy Gen’s Gekiro kicks only allow 1 blocked hit. Is this true, if they block the Gekiro, Gen cannot do it again to float higher, or punish them if they forget to continue blocking?
So if Gekiro is blocked, I can’t bait fools anymore? Am I reading this right?
@Vanesco, I’m in complete agreement with De-gengeneering by Capcom, I’m certain they don’t have it in them to properly develop a complicated character that works, even if it means listening to the concerns of the Gen community.
Gen still has same amount of HP as Akuma, he’s a light character, weaker HP than others so why is it a big deal to burn EX for an EX OGA full invincible escape? If I can be baited for it, just like an Akuma teleport(which is free on meter) then where’s the harm? which was the case in Vanilla. So if Akuma has the potential for an escape to reset himself, why doesn’t Gen?
In terms of his Crane stance, S.Hp needs to be much faster atm it’s just useless and slow.
S.Mk is pointless, slow, crappy hitbox. Would be nice if it were a viable input, maybe have a frame trap on it like Fei’s S.mp and on hit, link into Mantis C.hk.
For all of his problems, Mantis jump still is the worst jump arc in the game. It troubles me to no end how poor this jump is. Either fix the animations to suit the Jump arc or change the Jump arc back to Vanilla style (torpedo) Why completely ruin his mantis air game at the cost of 1 character (Hawk)
Who in their right mind would go for cross up shenanigans on him anyway? Gen has tools to keep him out so the necessity of being able to jump over that man-mountain seems lost on me. With EX oga added as well, would be fine. I’d take a potential even worse matchup with hawk, for a better game against the rest of the cast.
I’m positive you can still float after blocked Gekiro.
I’ll see if I can test the EX hands combo you mentioned. It seems like it might work with the new TC too since the mk puts you further inside of them, but I’m not too sure.
Actually, there was some misleading in the translation back then (and trust me, I’m not the one who worded it that way). The devs said that his ankle and onward was invincible, but never mentioned anything about lower body being invincible (hell, I would have loved that tho). Assuming there are hurtbox changes, it would be really hard to notice (for example, how many opponents would know that Gen has lower body invincibility during the second kick in Crane s.HK?), and as you said, we would need console dlc to confirm stuffs like that.
About Mantis U2, it was like this in SSF4: When you blocked Blanka’s U1, you could reversal Mantis U1 right after blocking the first strike and you would beat him as he comes down. When Blanka stomps down, he is in low profile. Gen can reversal with Mantis U2, but since Blanka is in low profile, you actually whiff the attack and will get owned for full damage. I’m pretty sure this would be changed with his vertical range buff in U2.
I must have misunderstood your question, and I apologize.
Considering Mantis U2 doesn’t go to full animation in any other airborne situations, I would assume Mantis U2 doesn’t have any juggle-hitbox sort of thing. I’m guessing they gave it a special property when cancelled from Mantis Super, just like how AE Akuma’s U2 has bigger hitbox only when cancelled from teleport.
Vanesco confirmed it, and this video further supports it:
[media=youtube]zyYCJAFYfkM[/media]
around 1:03
The ankle onwards had always been invincible. Nothing had changed except the hitbox extending to his foot. I dunno why the devs mentioned it except to remind people of that. Meh.
You answered your own question 
Remember that devs even reminded us that Mantis cr.MP is special cancellable.
unless i missed something, akuma only has 850. gen has 900. akumas TP is some bullshit tho.
TPs would’ve been less ridiculous if they showed us which way they were going from frame 1. Like a huge arrow on top of their head representing their directions xD. Or at least turn the characters around a bit faster.
And yes, Akuma has 850 & Gen has 900.
Meh, I don’t think that Akuma’s TP is BS so much as it serves as a good standpoint for balance issues for lower-hp or light characters. If you’re gonna give a character lower HP then there better be a way to escape your opposition or keep your opposition out, and that way needs to be punishable although still acessible.
Claw has backflip, Dhalsim has TP, Seth has TP and wallbounce these all are in the same category as Akuma’s TP. I think Gen’s OGA falls in the same category as these “stylish” moves and as such limits him from being aligned with a solid footsie-wall char like Chun or Guile where their wakeup is less than good.
Unless Gen is somehow fixed via Jump Arcs and Gekiro in the unforseen-probably-won’t-happen-next console patch. Then I’d be satisfied with EX Oga having full invincible again. Because right now on wakeup Gen doesn’t have shit to save him, either justify the reason for him not needing wakeup with a better movement and zoning game or improve his wakeup, one or the other and Gen would be tolerable. Funny how it feels like I’ve been saying this for a while now >.<