Now it seems impossible to stand block and punish hp/EX Blanka balls with EX SB from mid screen now. It was very easy in SF4.
I’ll try to contribute punishments regarding anti-air moves/normals by other characters since it’s a major factor in Guile’s game.
Shoto’s crossup tatsu(not on wakeup) punishable with c.hp, s.hp, airthrow, jump hp/hk, neutral jump hp, FK, super, ultra 1/2(auto correct). Ken’s EX tatsu seems impossible to punish by auto correct ultra/super/FK due to it’s speed but can be punished with a 2 hit normal super which puts Ken in juggle state. Might be able to use df hk to punish normal cross up tatsus due to new improvements in hitbox.
Rufus’ dive kick. Airthrow/specials and jump normals aside cos these depend on when Rufus hit dive kick, neutral jump if you anticipate a high dive kick and you can punish when you land. Due to the angle of his dive kick, you can mostly punish without trading if you hit his feet right at your normals’ max range. S.hp, backfist is a good example of what I meant and these are the best normals to punish his dive kick from far. From mid range to c.hp range, s.lp, s.mp and d.mp can punish dive kicks cleanly but you have to be accurate with your distance and timing. Not recommended to use d.hp to punish dive kicks as it is easily stuffed and you eat a full combo. Df hk trades a lot. Rare to get a clean hit with it.
M Bison’s Devil Reverse. Forward airthrow is best. Followed by forward jump hp/mp/hk. Dictators like to dive on you when you miss your jump forward attack and you can use c.hp to stuff the dive. If they don’t dive, they’ll eat airthrow. Df hk and s.hp also works if he tries to dive from further away.
T Hawk’s Condor Dive. Airthrow and specials aside. S.hp works best because it’s the easiest move to time max range s.hp to hit his head. D.mp and s.lp works too but again you have to hit his head at the max range. Df hk is hard to hit clean but I’ve done it before once. Has to be hit very early and the his head goes right into your boot. I won’t go into details how to punish on block as someone has already posted it.
I’m sorry but only at this point I realised that I’d forgotten that this was a punishment thread and I was lucky cos I actually wanted to write more. I think what I wrote was more to stuffing opponents’ special moves. But since I wrote it, I’ll leave it. I hope the info will be useful if someone ever decides to create a stuffing thread. Apologies.
Zangief
d.hk: fk, super (lk,mk), cr.mp, s.hp
df.hk: cr.hk, cr.mp, s.hp, super, fk, sb, u2
El Fuerte
Tostada Press: cr.hk, u2, ex sb
Quesadilla Bomb: fk, sb (hp or ex), f.hp, u2, super (hk)
Calamari Slide: fk, super, u2, cr.mp, cr.hk, s.hp, sb
[quote=Monir;8975819Calamari Slide: fk, super, u2, cr.mp, cr.hk, s.hp, sb[/quote]
Did they change something? That slide was always blatantly safe…
It’s safe for him if you he does it early and you block during the last few active frames of the slide. If he does it late/in front of you and hits you at the beginning frames of the slide, he’ll need a lot of time for recovery and you can deal him a lot of pain.
I think you’ve been playing very good Elfs cos you won’t have a chance to punish good Elfs who slides with a good sense of timing and distance.
I think a lot of people don’t know about this but when you block Akuma’s 2 hit s.hk, sometimes there is a distance where you’ll only block the first hit but the 2nd kick whiffs. You can actually punish the whiff with c.mp FK/c.hk. Not sure about whether SH is able to punish it but I think you’ll have to buffer SH when you block the first hit if you intend to try cos Akuma’s hk recovers quite fast.
As a Bison player that is also trying to learn Guile, there is one glaring omission: Bison’s LK Scissor Kick is unpunishable (frame advantage on block is 0).
this is a “PUNISHMENT” listing. if you can’t punish it, it isn’t listed. That’s how it works.
Eh, I think unpunishable stuff is an alright addition if it’s stuff like this. There are a lot of bison’s who keep throwing things out after lk scissors, and a lot of guile’s who flashkick immediately after they block a lk scissors. Combine them, and suddenly the Guile thinks LK scissors is flashkick punishable.
Then the listing for Honda’s LP/MP Headbutt as being unpunishable needs to be removed as it is currently in the first post (hence my original suggestion).
I’ll be updating my first post today guys, great stuff, I definitely learned a few things. I’ll be posting my initial personal list tonight after work to help update a few characters.
MrMan99, I think I WILL be noting which moves are unpunishable, for the exact reason Slinkun mentioned. Especially online, the overaggressive, will-never-learn players who continually open themselves to “false” punishment will end up giving some Guile players a false sense of punishment. I’d rather just look and know, for sure, something is unpunishable.
You guys all rule - I’ve updated the first post again. It’s still quite early but this list is starting to look respectable! Good job everyone. I’ll be publishing what I believe are complete Akuma, Bison and Honda ones after work.
You can punish Claw’s charge d, u + p move with U2 (not sure what it’s called…)
EDIT: Move is called “Sky High Claw”
AKUMA: 100% Complete, as far as I can tell. I did all the testing myself and made sure every possible move was a Reversal when being sure something didnt hit. I tested all things labeled Super with the LK super since its the only one I ever use (since it links to both ultras). I believe it to be complete and accurate, but feel free to post any corrections. More full listings through my personal testing coming Thursday most likely, as I will be watching my Flyers win Stanley Cup game 3 tomorrow!..
Question to the forumers: should I leave the moves labeled as Gohadoken and Shakunetsu as per the movelist, or call them something simpler like Fireball / Super Fireball?
calling them fireballs and red fireballs and all the DPs just DPs or SRKs would benefit people who don’t play those characters more imo. Some people haven’t ever deviated from their 1 character and also haven’t taken the time to learn the names of all the variations of the same move that different characters share.
Thanks for all the hard work. It looks great. Good resource.
looks great!
Bison / Dictator:
hk and ex scissor kicks are both -8f on block. If you check the wiki, you could list all of Guile’s normals which have a start-up of less than 8f.
At least one you’re missing is s.hp(far).
SalPal: good call; changed to Fireball and Red Fireball for easier reading.
syngin: added HK to the EX scissor. I also added s.HP. I’m not going to list every single possible punish, just enough to show what you can do… like, you’d never wanna punish with standing medium kick unless somehow it was the ONLY punish hahaha; I’ll always list a sweep most likely, df.HK, s.HP, and either c.MP or c.LP if medium punch wont hit to show comboability.
:db:charge ,:l::hp:,:ub::hk:
Also note that c.lp, c.lk, c.mp, and far s.lp all have a startup or 4 frames. Unless there is a range issue, any thing that can be punished with a c.mp can also be c.lk’d, c.lp’d, or s.lp’d.
I’d think that the normals to keep track of for punishing would be:
Throw (3f)
close s.lp (3f)
flashkick (4f, easy reversal)
c.mp (4f)
s.hp (5f)
c.hk (6f) (?)
U1 (7f)
U2 (8f)
Backfist (8f)
df.hk (11f) (?)
(Correct me if I’m wrong on the frames)
Maybe it should also be noted that unless a range issue is present, anything that can be flashkick punished can also be c.mp punished. However, many people don’t realise this because it’s infinitely harder to perform a normal attack as a reversal as opposed to a special.
For example, unless they changed it from vanilla, rufus’ target combo was -5 on block (s.lk > s.hp). If you had a down charge, you could flashkick that shit reliably all day. Trying to tap it with a far s.lp, c.mp, or s.hp was very tricky.
This is a nice point; when I update the first post I’ll make a note of this at the top.
I have 4 more complete characters to post up later [Adon, Rose, Zangief and Guile himself]; been very busy at work but its all written down on paper, just need to sit down and type it up. I’ll do it tomorrow morning.