Here’s a good way to test frame advantage/disadvantage:
You need 2 controllers/sticks to test this. use whatever move you want to test and have the other block or take the hit. After the hit connects, have both characters jump as soon as they can. From there pause the game and you can see who’s higher than the other. After you test this out, go back to sf4 and run the same test and see if there’s a difference in height.
Did anyone notice Ultra 1 losing more often, less invincibility or hit box? I been losing to random stuff like Blanka Ultra 1 after I back dash and he starts rolling, not the glitch if he doesn’t roll and Guy’s running overhead that I launched ultra after he went in the air and a few other things, I don’t try to beat much with it or just throw it out so rarely use it but was curious as I’m trying to play more serious, it is probably human error.
ok…I was screwing around in training mode and found some shit on accident…I don’t know if this is common knowledge to cammy plays but whatever
on sagat at least: cHP->canon spike is a buff hit confirm and cHP is safe on block with a LONG time to confirm hit
on everyone->cHP->sweep is tight
TK CS (non ex)->sweep is tight as well
Also in this game it is alot easier to do meaties so on wake up cHP->U1 is hella easy if a timed right meaty lands.
Well, here’s the updated frame data for Cammy in super (according to Prima Guide):
Standing Far HP – recovers 4 frames (15) FASTER than vanilla (19)… everything else the same (startup, active, frame adv on block/hit), so it’s slightly safer if whiffed… LOL
Standing Far HK – recovers 1 frame (22) SLOWER than vanilla (21), but it is an EXCELLENT TRADE for its amazing INCREASED RANGE and AA properties compared to vanilla.
SBF (LP) – Startup is 2 frames (35) FASTER than vanilla (37), 1 extra frame (11) of ACTIVE HIT FRAME than vanilla (10), 2 frames (11) LESS on recovery than vanilla (9) and +4 on block (vanilla is +3)
SBF(MP) – Startup is 3 frames (33) FASTER than vanilla (36), 1 extra frame (11) of ACTIVE HIT FRAME than vanilla (10), 1 frame (11) LESS on recovery than vanilla (10)
SBF(HP) – Startup is 3 frames (36) FASTER than vanilla (39), 1 extra frame (11) of ACTIVE HIT FRAME than vanilla (10), 1 frame (11) LESS on recovery than vanilla (10)
SBF(EX) – see SBF(MP)
So for the normal buffs, none of the buffs translate into anything useful because NONE of the startup/active/ hit&block adv were changed from vanilla, only the recovery frames were tweaked.
Here’s a list of the fb recovery frames from various opponents:
punishable:
Sagat: high tiger 39 frames (recovery), low tiger 45 frames
Ryu: fb 45 frames, ex fb 40 frames
Ken: fb 47 frames, ex fb 44 frames
Gouken: fb 41 frames, ex 55 frames
Dhalsim: fb 48, ex 44
Chun Li: lp fb 44, mp/hp fb 41, ex fb 48
Akuma: purple fb 44, red (multi-hit) lp 50, mp 57, hp 63, ex 50
Rose: lp/mp fb 52, hp fb 53, ex hp 48
Sakura:fb 48
not punishable:
Guile: lp sb 29, mp sb 31, hp sb 33 frames, ex sb 29 frames (this might be a typo from Prima, in vanilla it was 39 ?!?!?!?)
Cody: stone lp 16, mp 18, hp 20, ex 17 (yikes, amazing recovery)
DeeJay: fb 28, ex fb 26 (wow, new comers got good recovery on fireballs)
I purposely didn’t list Dan (duh…), Ibuki (air fb), and Juri (can be delayed).
the LP version of the SBF is interesting… it has +4 on block, so you should be able to do a st.close.mp or st.close.hp and be safe on block! And as a bonus, if they mashed anything in between the moves, you should be able to score a counter hit and be able to combo off the counter hit…
Good news.
I’m pretty sure some of this stuff is wrong though. Guile’s EX SB still has 39 frames of recovery. Dee Jays Air Slasher, is punishable by SBF (I tried with Mp version). Ex Air Slasher isn’t punishable because SBF has not enough invincibility frames to go through both Air Slashers. If you want to know, I used this setup to test it: Cammy is recorded to perform Hooligan Slide (-1 on block), and then does MP SBF immediately after. I play as Dee Jay and perform reversal Air Slasher after blocking the slide. All Dee Jay’s Air Slashers were punished by it, same setup didn’t work on Guile’s regular Booms (HP boom wasn’t punished because Cammy is at -1 after slide). Cody’s rocks have extremely fast recovery, but their startup is very slow (29 frames). And Ibuki’s kunai isn’t a problem at all, because as you already know you can knock it out of the air with any of the normals, or you can just CSpike both Kunai and Ibuki. This is one rare situation where huge active frames on CSpike actually help.
I don’t think +4 on Lp SBF will be of any use, because SBF has huge pushback on block.:bluu:
Shame they made Far HP recovery faster on whiff only, so it doesn’t link into anything on counterhit. Would be cool if it was + on block.
Main
No where near as trash as I thought this character would be.
Ultra 2 should have a extremely close range block able grab, so I could use it after a focus attack for more damage because as is, ultra 1 is just too dam good. Though I would prefer a cannon spike or hooligan ultra that could juggle fully.
I’m used to this character’s speed and I could range light cross up kicks perfectly most of the time, though there should be a slight amount more stun on jumping light kick since there is a chance you’ll end up missing into a cannon drill unlike medium kick jump attacks.
Normal cannon strikes to the ground seem harder to pull off but those have always been risky. Ex strike is a breeze into ultra1. Other character’s do more damage I guess, but I mix up grab/cross up/focus pretty well. Would be prefect if spinning back fist hit overhead.
Just my opinions as a Cammy user who improbably better off with in most cases instead of Ryu.
even though all ultras were reduced the first thing i notice was U1 was changed. big damage was done at the end during the neckbreaker part unlike in vanilla. this makes CS>FADC>ultra weaker. when compared w/ someone like ryu you can see the change. back in vanilla cammy’s CS>FADC>ultra did more than ryu’s DP>FADC>ultra. about 10 more damage. now in SSFIV ryu’s DP>FADC>ultra does more than cammy’s CS>FADC>ultra. about 30 less damage.
im comparing vanilla cammy w/ vanilla ryu and super cammy w/ super ryu.
if you compare damage than the neckbreaker does ~190 (80% scaling) compared to ~160 w/o neckbreaker (80% scaling).
i used 80% scaling cause i couldn’t get the non-neckbreaker to do it at 100% even when i set it up to jumping.
I dunno. I actually like the neckbreaker buff at the end. I can’t combo into U1 because my execution is poor. (I will train on this when I do have time though). Its quite satisfying getting to the neckbreaker part (while the opponent has a substantial amount of life left) and be like YES, it KO’ed! because it normally did not for Vanilla.
I finally was able to play cammy in super in a tournament and is mostly as you guys have said, I love the new crossup, which opens a new mixup, the cs>fadc>cs feels like a waste of meter now and cs>fadc>u1 does enough damage for an easy setup… Also I did notice that was a lot easier to get the bnb combos, maybe again, as a lot of you have said, because of the new game speed, also didn’t miss any tkcs > cr.hp > cr.mk > sa, combo where sometimes I missed the cr.hp after the tkcs in vanilla (by doing it too fast).
About match ups, got to play some zangiefs and I feel that was a lot more even now since they can’t spam lariat anymore, also didn’t had much trouble against some guiles, the lk cross up makes a lot for that match. My worst match up of the day was t-hawk, couldn’t beat any with cammy, even had to switch to other character to get on the top 4 to beat one (that I still don’t know how I did it), then got beaten by another t-hawk. I feel that is like the old gief for cammy, hit and run and don’t do any relative high c.strike or you will eat an spd (dunno how is called the move)
I looked through PRIMA’s SSFIV Cammy frame data again, and there’s one more change that nobody mentioned here. Cammy’s air throw has a 3 frame startup now.
Better late than never I guess.
not sure i would trust that guide, though. there’s a solid chance they figured out one character has a 3-frame startup and then decided that clearly all characters with air grabs must have a 3-frame startup.
Most of the stuff there is accurate. Faster SBF is correct, far HP having less recovery on whiff is also correct. I could only find two things that are incorrect: Guile’s EX Boom and Dee Jay’s Air Slasher recovery.
Also they didn’t just “decided that all air grabs must have a 3-frame startup”. Here’s the quote:
“Using 60fps high definition video, the team captured each of the characters’ numerous attacks a minimum of three times each. The recordings were then played back frame by frame to calculate the data and then double and triple checked for precision. We have made every effort possible to ensure the accuracy of this data.”
I hope they are correct.
Wow… damage drop off of her super was just not needed… But eh, who cares what changed her as long as she’s Cammy I’ll find some way around it. Her cross up J.lk was a nice buff to me 
seriously? awesome. i’ll try air throw more now.
The only thing I noticed other than the things already mentioned is that her EX hooligan now has 63 frames of startup where the old version had 53 frames. I have no idea what difference this makes other than that the total animation takes longer. Perhaps they changed the grabbable frames. (was 32-44 in Vanilla). Perhaps it’s 32-54 now? It might also have to do with the higher arc it has. At least to me it looks like ex hooligan has a higher arc. It would also make it easier to punish because there are now 10 more frames.
Something that hasn’t changed framedatawise is her crouching mp. Cr. Hp, cr. mp should be possible in both vanilla and Super. If you take only the framedata in mind. I find it much easier to pull off in Super however. Perhaps cr. mp has a larger hitbox in Super?
*Edit: Cr. HP to cr. mp is also possible in vanilla. Just tested it. The window seems about the same. Somehow it does seem easier in Super. But that could be imagination.
Hm… Interesting because lately I’ve been missing my grabs against FB from 3/4 screen away… So 10 extra frames do make a difference… No wonder!!! I thought my reaction timing gone to hell when I missed those hooli grabs…
PS: I don’t know how many of you actually use hooligan slide in games, lately I’ve been using it more and more and it is surprisingly effective as a mix up…
I’ve been wanting to do this for some time and I finally got around to comparing all versions of SA in vanilla and Super. What I did was have a dummy perform SA (lk, mk, hk and EX) and then count how many squares I had to stand away to get hit. I also looked at the ‘endpose’.
First thing I found is that there is no difference in the endpose. None that I found. The hit however is different. Like so:
lk: lk SA travelled 1.8 squares in vanilla and 1.5 squares in Super. The endpose was 2.1 in both.
mk: mk SA travelled 2.2 squares in vanilla and 2.0 squares in Super. The endpose was 2.8 in both.
HK: HK SA travelled 2.4 squares in vanilla and 2.4 squares in Super. The endpose was 3.4 in both.
EX: EX SA travelled 2.4 squares in vanilla and 2.4 squares in Super. The endpose was 3.4 in both.
What I mean by this is that if you stand 1.6 squares away from the most front part of Cammy’s foot you will not get hit by a lk SA in Super. You will get hit by a lk SA in vanilla. In both cases her front most leg will end up between your two feet.
The total distance for lk and mk SA is shorter in Super. Whether or not this is a buff I leave up to you to decide. I think it’s a buff.
The pushback was also different in Super.
*edit
pushback for SA was:
In vanilla:
lk : 0.5
mk: 0.1
hk: -0.2
EX: -0.1
in SUPER:
lk : 0.3
mk: 0.0
hk: -0.3
EX: -0.3
What I mean by this is that a lk SA puts Cammy’s front most foot at 0.5 squares away at the endpose in Vanilla. The same lk SA puts her front most foot 0.3 squares away at the endpose in Super. The EX version in Super puts her front most foot past the dummy’s front most foot by 0.3 squares. In vanilla it’s ‘only’ 0.1.
FYI. I did all these measurements with SA at max range. SA isn’t safe at any other range. So I didn’t bother testing them. Besides. I want to get back online and in the game.
Good find… I like the super version of her SAs… I always thought the variations between the SAs were too small in vanilla, now in super looks like there’s 1/2 square distance difference between the versions which means more variations and easier to space.
I’ve been using her semi-safe drills more in Super than vanilla…
SPIRAL ARROW IS THE SAME.
I hate to dissapoint but SA is unchanged. I don’t know the way you tested it but my way is pretty reliable. I used Ryu as a dummy in the corner and perform SA from max range by counting floor tiles. I know that SA is performed from max range when SA sometimes hits Ryu and sometimes it whiffs. That’s all because neutral animation changes his hitbox slightly. So I literally counted pixels.
The range and pushback for every SA is same. I can bet my life on this.
You said that you used a dummy to perform SA. I assume Cammy performed a blockstring or something and then did SA. If that is how you did it, you should know that blockstring or a hitstring has a different pushback depending on… a lot of factors. Just try is yourself: play as Cammy and perform SA from Max possible range by counting tiles of the training stage. As I already said max range is when SA sometimes hits dummy and sometimes it whiffs because of his neutral animation. If you want I can post screenshots with Max range for Lk and Mk SA so you can try it for youself.
The way I tested it. I had a dummy Cammy stand all the way to the left. I recorded a SA (Lk, mk etc.) Then I tried different distances until I got the distance where I got hit. Both after blocking and not blocking. I tried several times to see if I would get different results. I too counted floor tiles. It looks like we both did solid research and got different results. I don’t know what else to say.