I know we already have a thread about Cammy’s changes in Super, but that’s from before people got their hands on the final build of the game. I figure a thread devoted to listing and testing changes would be useful, especially for people that don’t want to sift through the cluttered mess that we have now. Most, if not all, of the info I have is from SeikuRyu, so mad props to him. I’ve also compiled some of the stuff from the older thread.
So here we go:
air-to-air Cannon Spike do 120, 140, 160 damage instead of 80, 90, 95 in vanilla (EX is 95 now)
SBF has improved speed (can still be hit/grabbed right before she extends her fist)
improved range on cr.HK
standing far HK has slightly improved range, better AA properties
j.LK is much more consistent as a crossup (can someone test if it’s universal now?)
EX Cannon Spike might have more invincibility frames
might be easier to crossup with dive kicks
Spiral Arrow slightly safer (confirmed FALSE by carpark; recovery is no better, distance for safe spiral arrow is the same)
LK, MK, and HK Canon Spike all do 100 damage now, EX does 150
dive kicks reduced to 60 damage from 70
cr.HP reduced to 90 damage from 110 in vanilla
Ultra 1 does 480 damage (540 in vanilla)
HP cspike fadc Ultra 1 does 431 damage (~540 in vanilla)
tkcs, cr.HP, cr.MK xx HK SA does 300 instead of 330
reduced range on cr.MK (confirmed FALSE by carpark)
Stun Changes (thanks, carpark)
Like you would expect CSpike got changed stun values (all other moves have same stun as before).
LK ground 100 air 150 (all versions were ground 200 air 100)
MK ground 100 air 180
HK ground 100 air 200
EX ground 200 air 100
Also, Ultra 2 beats reversals as long as the special attack doesn’t normally have armor break properties.
Please keep in mind that damage nerfs have been felt across the board (with the exception of Dhalsim), so many of the “nerfs” are not as bad as they might immediately sound.
Will update as more things are discovered, confirmed, proven false, etc.
In vanilla the damage air-to-air is 80, 90, 95, and 95 for light, medium, hard and ex. This is actually quite a big buff, if you can catch them jumping in from afar. The trajectory of the spike might be more meaningful now.
That’s a nerf, vanilla has 160 ground-to-ground for ex-spike.
Doesn’t say which spiral arrow. Testing it in vanilla now it does 163 on the hard version that hits twice, which would make this a buff!
No, it still does 65 damage. Which is actually suprising, because a lot of good cr. Mk’s and cr. Mp’s have been nerfed (Ryu’s, Ken’s (cr. Mk only), Akuma’s do 60 damage instead of 70).
Cr. Fierce did 110 damage in SFIV.
It does 163 damage, same as before.
Tested it on multiple characters, using two methods: pushback from a blockstring, and counting tiles on the floor. No change.
Most definetly not safer. Tested on many moves like HP Banishing Flat, LK Shunpukyaku, HK Double Knee Press (all have 16 frame startup in SFIV and most likely unchanged in SSFIV, possible to punish LK and MK versions without reversal timing, so LK and MK are still -17 on block), HK version is -10, get’s punished by every ultra that had a 10 frame startup before but doesn’t get punished by 11 frame moves.
Good stuff!!! I will keep doing the asking and you will keep doing the collecting… I have a notepad with the answers for the questions I asked to Carpark, Stein and a few others, I was gonna start a thread exactly like yours but you beat me to it (whew…). Being a thread starter, please continue to update the 1st post with all the latest information… Thanks.
Remember I said about j.Strong cross-up on T.Hawk. It is quite interesting because from its setup (close Forward) you can never jump over T.Hawk without using jump normals. Some jump normals reduce Cammy’s hitbox thus allowing you to jump over him. This cross-up also works on Hakan, but I couldn’t find a good setup for him, and he is quite weak anyway. Another interesting thing about it that it actually is an ambiguous crossup, because if you press Strong too early or too late Cammy will not jump over him. I made a small video about it.
I don’t agree with this just yet. Making SA safer can be done a number of ways. The test you did, very smart test BTW finding other moves that have 16 frames startups, only tests whether or not the startup and hitstun are the same. It doesn’t give any information on the recovery or the amount of active frames on SA. When you think about it, to make SA safe on hitting the first active frame you’d have to add a LOT of hitstun. That would make the move very broken.
SA is already safe at max distance in vanilla SFIV. Making it safer in SSFIV can also be done by adding active frames and removing recovery frames. That way the animation could stay the same, but you have a wider range of distance to use the SA. I suspect Capcom would go that route because it’s the least amount of work and is less prone to glitchiness. If you could find out the max range and the closest range at which the SA is safe on block that would really tell us if it’s safer or not. In vanilla there is little room for error in the spacing. Perhaps they added 1 or 2 extra active frames at the end. That would make it much safer, but would make no difference at close range.
I’ll get my copy next week, so I’ll be glad to test it then. Until then I hope someone else can look at this.
You probably need 2 players to do this. Or is there some nifty way to use the record function to test this?? I think I saw that in one of the youtube vids. (But I digress)
Could someone please go into surgical detail on the following:
What has been done to SBF–different number of frames, different hitboxes (including nonexistent ones where Cammy is ‘transparent’) etc. need to be considered.
Is her air-throw damage the same as before? Has every damage change now been mentioned? Do all the spiral arrows damage the same as before?
Air throw probably is even more redundant now, since cannon spike can almost match it for damage (instead of air-throwing fei long out of his whiffed dp just dp him!). Before this would have done a puny <100 damage.
Safe distances are same as before. I tested this in SFIV. I play as Ryu, Cammy performs a blockstring that pushes her back so that SA would be safe, I do Ryu’s reversal HP Super (2 frames (EDIT: I mean 2 frame startup, hits on frame 3)), it doesn’t punish SA, then I move slightly forward after Cammy’s blockstring, so that SA would be barely unsafe, and then punish a blocked arrow with HP Super. I tired exactly same setup is SSFIV, nothing has changed. No additional pushback, as well. All SA’s have same range as before.
SBF’s startup is slighly faster, I couldn’t punish Guile’s SB (except EX, but it is very slow compared to other SB’s), so if I had to guess I say all versions have 3-4 frames faster startup. Hitboxes are hard to test, but probably unchanged.
Airthrow damage is unchanged. No other damage changes.
Stamina and stun are same.
Haven’t tested stun on her attacks yet. Will test later. To busy testing shotos and Ibuki.
Yes, it hits faster. I mentioned Boom because it is unpunishable, and Hp version has 33 frames of recovery in SFIV, so I assume it is unchanged. Mp knuckle hits on frame 36 in SFIV so it coud be 2-3 frames faster, I tested it with Guile performing reversal Hp Boom, while Cammy is at -1 (Hooligan slide) so at best it might hit on frame 33 now. Other fireballs are punishable with SBF (even Dee Jay’s Air Slasher) that way.
I played her a few more times last night. Can someone who has immediate access to the game thoroughly test whether or not her Hooligan traps are still intact.
For example: f.throw > hooligan, CS > hooligan etc.
Also, are the hitbox on the divekicks the same as before? I can’t seem to land my cross-up divekicks on Sagat post HK SA. I was able to land them pretty consistently in Vanilla (about ~70% of the time). Now my hk divekick just whiffs over his head when otherwise it shouldn’t. Now, if feel like the hitbox seems a bit… smaller? Can anyone just fiddle around with the dive kicks and see if there is anything different about them.
Glad we have a cross up lk now. This way if I want a consistent cross up, i’ll just go for that.