SSF4 AE Zangief Changes, Videos, Match-up Discussion

[Roman4328]

link to jap thread?

[Sharin]

[media=youtube]1I0QtOM4gRs[/media]

EX gh doesnt knock down punishing juris fireball at least, EX gh seems to be more safe at certain range but I could be wrong.

[Doopliss]

Yes, it looked quite safe in the end of the video.

[Cestus]

some things from jap thread…

lp spd range and damage increased. fp spd dmg is awesome.
much safer on 1hit exgh due to increased hit back, out of ryu c.mk
exgh 2hit has 2 conditions depending on the initial hit distance.
gh regardlress of ex or not will knock down on counter hit.
if you hit opponent during fireball motion, it will knock down.
sometimes it ends up too far like 1hit, sometimes its very close and can continue attacking
u2 rage goes about half a screen, catches back jump easy. usually safe on miss by moving away too.

no mention of st HP?
Is supposed to have more range

[Unreallystic]

I’m telling you guys, EX-Hand on hit is better for mixup and mind games.

::facepalm::
No it’s not. It’s similar to a poorly timed knees cross-up. Maybe against the online folks who have lag and don’t know the get out of jail free options…it looks like there is a mind game going on, but everyone else sees a cahcne to knock Gief down and get away or land an ultra.

• :bluu:

KD is always better than no KD. I can’t believe there’s still debate about this going on…

::agreed:: there is no logic to this. I honestly thhink lariat is a better ender at this point…

• :bluu:

For all the characters Gief got better vs because of their nerfs, same amount of characters that he was even or 4-6 vs got notably better. Thinks Juri, thinks Gouken, thinks DJ, thinks Adon, thinks Ken, thinks lp srk trade ultra Ryu…

and he will still suck vs chun, sagat and akuma…the tourney mainstays

Seeing is believing. Daigo is the man who says Viper is Top 5. Maybe she is but just needs the right player. Gief is that character. No herp-a-derp wins.

::agreed:: as for the Viper comment - I sorta agree, in the same ‘theory fighter’ mind frame that has Strider/Doom as top teir…in theory she should be, in reality though - she’s not.

• :bluu:

What I am wondering is:

LP SPD range has been extended, so:

1. if you EX GH them from right in their face and they backdash afterwards, are they still in SPD range

2. If the above is NO, then surely backdash or up+back wins every time? With EX GH at +1 I don’t see how they can make cr.lk 3 frames again?

3. What role does far standing hard punch (if any) have to play after EX SPD?

4. I actually think the sagat match will be easier now, personally i find myself at my most dangerous when we are both standing and I am in his face

1. Well old jab spd was s.mp range, sohave a character backdash from Geif and see if a s.mp hits them. If it does, they are def throwable…outside of that is a toss-up. But then you HAVE to memorize how far everyone’s backdash is to make sure you don’t do it against someone with an insane backdash like Seth who could in theory punish the shit out of you for that whiffing throw animation.
2. It’s essentially a ‘visual ques/reaction’ type of paper/rock/scissors. After EXGH they have three options, block, attack, go airborne. If they go airborne…hitt’em with U2. If they block hit them with SPD. If they attack ‘block’ and punish. Watching the Tokido verse Zangitan match - you see both people ‘pause’ the first time as they try and gauge what th other person is going to do…and I think there will be a bit of that for while until we figure out a way to leak more damage from it as a mix-up of sorts, or everyone else figures out they can DP->FADC back as necessary.
3. None.
4. Unless the arc changed on the jump or the movement properties of GH changed, absolutely nothing changes for the Gat match-up. the problem isn’t waht to do when in his face, its getting IN his face thats the problem. The only possible saving grace is the range on jab spd…still dunno what it is anymore, but it may possibly be far enough to mess with Gat from a s.rh range, grabbing his hurtbox while moving forward.

• :bluu:

no mention of st HP?
Is supposed to have more range

No one knows or cares.

I stick to what I said a while ago. The nerf is HUGE, but until we know all the details, we can’t really call where Gief will land. No one can. We don’t know his new found SPD footsy range. We havne’t figured out the true fate of EXGH as a combo-ender. We don’t even know if c.lk is back to its old more practical self. Those are all HUGE items that have to be massaged into the same equation that includes other character buffs and changes in playstyle. Ultimatly what Capcom did was try and change how we fight, until we try it there way - who knows.

I’m not listneing to Daigo atm about the Gief match-up against FBs, he’s only friggin played as Yun apparently. Of COURSE he’s going to be nervous, Yun has to come to Gief, and all his attack options Gief in theory should be able to shut down - sorta like Makato. Gief should win in footsies, dive kicks get c.PPP, all his specials are SPD or s.mp bait…I just odn’t expect otherwise for that match-up. As for FBs, they lose mobility…Seth/Ryu/Akuma…but Seth got osme other goodies, Ryu is still Ryu, and Akuma cna still TP…so they got a little weaker but IMO not enough that it truly changes anything (on the surface with the info I have ‘now’)

• :bluu:

[sswyu]

[media=youtube]LFtziC7yFIk[/media]

it seems after ex green hand , sometimes the opponent is not within the lp spd range.
so trying spd after ex hand could be much more dangerous.

[GuruPrimo]

some things from jap thread…

lp spd range and damage increased. fp spd dmg is awesome.
much safer on 1hit exgh due to increased hit back, out of ryu c.mk
exgh 2hit has 2 conditions depending on the initial hit distance.
gh regardlress of ex or not will knock down on counter hit.
if you hit opponent during fireball motion, it will knock down.
sometimes it ends up too far like 1hit, sometimes its very close and can continue attacking
u2 rage goes about half a screen, catches back jump easy. usually safe on miss by moving away too.

Is there a source for any of this?

The end of the vid posted above by sswyu shows the fireball knockdown theory doesn’t work.

Also, the pushback on max range EXGH sucks balls.

[Unreallystic]

Is there a source for any of this?

The end of the vid posted above by sswyu shows the fireball knockdown theory doesn’t work.

Also, the pushback on max range EXGH sucks balls.

Well my ‘assumption’ is there is a part of the FB throwing animation where being hit counts as a reversal, and a part where it isn’t…if Gief is psychic and hits them at hte right time, he’ll score a knockdown, othrewise it isn’t a reversal and thus there is no knockdown.

Anyword on changes to his super? IMO of all people his super SHOULD do more damage than his ultra…seeing as he naturally absorbs damage.

• :bluu:

[sswyu]

if you ex hand a fireball on reaction, no way it could be a counter hit
counter hit is beating a move during its start-up frames.
its impossible to do that on reaction
so the ONLY chance you get a counter ex hand is by prediction or random ex hand.

[Unreallystic]

if you ex hand a fireball on reaction, no way it could be a counter hit
counter hit is beating a move during its start-up frames.
its impossible to do that on reaction
so the ONLY chance you get a counter ex hand is by prediction or random ex hand.

Hey like I said “psychic” (or baited). Regardless its not a frequent thing, in the range where its easy to bait and reversl something like that - most folks aren’t going to DO a fireball because its retarded at that range to do.

I’ve picked up Seth…I feel dirty inside…

• :bluu:

[Roman4328]

i need to see more VIDS!!!

[chief713]

[media=youtube]LFtziC7yFIk"[/media]

it seems after ex green hand , sometimes the opponent is not within the lp spd range.
so trying spd after ex hand could be much more dangerous.

So, cr.LK o.s. EX hand from max range leaves Gief close enough to do…nothing? What used to be a knockdown (i.e. a reward for good footsies) into one of the sickest oki’s in the game is now a free escape? :lame:

[Mariodood]

New Daigo interview on the front page. Daigo seems to think Gief is a threat even though he’s been nerfed because he does well against most of the top tiers. I guess we can stop whining now and hope we dont have to fight Akumas…

[Anemone]

The Akuma matchup is so much easier now. Did you see Tokido against that Zangeif? He played to win and played gay, but it was definitely more manageable than ROFLCOPTER AIRFIREBALL Akuma.

Seth, also easier, no jumping back fierce. He was mainly buffed in ways that Zangeif can manage, and back fierce was a major major part of GSeth’s keepaway game.

Chun-Li is still a bitch, her entire character would have to change for her to be a better matchup. Her situational anti-air got nerfed, but that’s not much to consider really. It’s helpful for getting in sure, and the stun down is also nice, but that’s not what caused geif trouble.

EDIT- not wakeup, big type there, keepaway.

[Sharin]

His teleport is now even more retarded since EX GH doesnt knock down and zangief is not in his face when ex gh hits, so i dont see how this match up gets better, ill say its going to be close to 7-3

[Anemone]

Yes because Seth was always so free on wakeup.

Knocking down Seth didn’t do much. his wakeup options are so plenty and potent. Without jumping back fierce getting in will be much easier.

[Sharin]

Sorry , I was talking about akuma. I feel seth is going to be more doable now. Imo akuma dominates gief in super and will be even worse in AE.

[Anemone]

Well again I don’t think that will do much. The reason Akuma was so bad was cause of three things

Akuma’s great footsies and sweep
Akuma’s outstanding ability to get knocked down and not give a fuck
Akuma’s outstanding ability to ROFLTCOPTER out of the corner

From what I saw, the risk reward on Akuma was so heavily in Akumas favor on the knockdown.
We’ve removed the ROFLTCOPTER that made that matchup basically impossible, and while his footsies are still as good as chun-li’s, unlike Chun-Li, the option to knock him down won’t be as badly missed (assuming the Chun-Li doesn’t have a bar). If there was still such a thing as Kumachopter then the lack of knock down would be really worrysome, but you still get in, and you still help push him back to the corner. Teleport isn’t as perfect an option as Kumachopter, though still a very good one.

Chun-Li is the only solid horrible matchup I really foresee for

[Mariodood]

I think Akuma’s still gonna be really really bad. Akuma can just teleport away after EX Green hand now, I don’t think Tokido had gotten used to the new EXGH in that video on SSF4AE’s account. Before Gief could use an OS to catch him, now he has less time. Also the vortex is dangerous vs gief as it always was.

[metallicaband]

If Akuma has a couple of bars, I think that will guarantee a free escape from Gief’s new EX GH mixup, just HP SRK reversal which is hit confirmable and FADC out if blocked, I’m not sure what’s the frame advantage for Akuma on blocked FADC (backdash), but if it can’t be punished with Gief’s new LP SPD, Akuma getting a couple of bars will annoy the hell out of Gief players since he has to worry about baiting the reversal, punishing a backdash, OS teleports or applying his mixup which is risky if Akuma has meter. If coward copter wasn’t removed, I really have no idea how Gief could have won this match when playing against an equally skilled Akuma player…!