SSF4 AE Zangief Changes, Videos, Match-up Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
661

Nice analysis. MUCH MUCH respect.

But there is no way sim is Giefs worst MU. He hits like a girl, plus once your on him he’s fucing done. The issue in super i think was u2 made the jump in meta game near impossible. Haven’t hit the lab, but maybe controllable u2 with fix that right up???

Also, wondering why you think he’s disadvantaged vs Adon. He’s annoying but very beatable. Unless you in the corner Jag kick pressure is meh for Gief.

On another note, I think Gief beats the be-jesus out of Honda now. Jump on him for free when he has no meter, and U2 pretty much shuts down his AA game. Pork chop just cant fuc with a nicely spaced Gief “dive kick”. His damage is ass and it seems like nj. fierce trades with lariat a lot more now.

662

The damage for Dhalsim maybe low, but an effective spacer like Arturo would make short work of gief. This is one of those matchups where you NEED a knock-down. That’s why I rate Dhalsim higher than super. He didn’t get better, Gief got worse in this matchup. Ultra 2 is worthless against dhalsim. He doesn’t need to jump and he can fake teleport to bait it out very easily.

Adon is very beatable, but his normal buffs make him a significantly more dangerous character up front. His ability to keep Gief out is what keeps him at a 6 vs a 5. (things like Ultra 1 to punish lariat whiff, ex-jaguar kick, counter-hit frame-traps). The buff for gief here is that adon’s wakeup timing is the same as everyone else so oki is easier to capitalize on)

Regarding Honda. Good honda players can still annoy the crap out of you. It’s an even matchup, primarily due to hondas neutral jump hands. They’re a fantastic zoning tool and headbutts are still very effective. He plays the exact same, he just has to do more of it than super :stuck_out_tongue:

663

new horrible matchup is oni,
he hit like a truck, and zangief hit like a baby in footies.
one whiff special and get punished , pretty much you are dead.

also others character would gain great advantage without GH knock down includes but not limited to: Abel, Sakura, boxer, dudley, …
Those are the MU once in gief’s favour but now in the opponents’.

664

I haven’t lost to an ONI yet Also I haven’t lost to evil ryu or either of the twins yet so not sure if they are that bad for gief but it’s day 3 and I am taking serious advantage of the damage buff on spd.

665

Seeing as someone continues with negative vids let’s look at something positive.

Sent From Hueco Mundo Using Garganta Talk

666

lol, that’s an online turbo sagat scrub
seeing any good player abuse turbo?

667

Well seeing as you just continue to be negative about everything and have yet add something to help it’s worth a shot.

Sent From Hueco Mundo Using Garganta Talk

668

Oni is a very easy matchup. Easily in gief’s favor. His main pokes can be easily beaten with O~S Jab > EX-GH. Heck you can even focus F+fierce.

Oni doesn’t do that great of damage. His best punish combo is around 450 which requires 3 meters. I have rarely lost to an oni. All of his stuff is easily beaten by basic strategy. Kara-EXGH shuts down his fireball game since his hurt-box shifts forward from fireballs significantly. He has no FADC-able SRK, his EX-Slash can be seen from a mile away. CANTONA in the video wasn’t playing the match properly (not to mention taking a lot of jump in risks.)

Gief and Abel now is a 5-5. Abel has his stuff, but the nerf to the startup/cancel to Ultra II make it relatively fair. Gief has nothing but tools to counter wheel-kicks/rolls. Sakura is still a 5-5 matchup like super. Unfortunately she’s another character who I think is under-played. Her Neutral jump roundhouse stuffs lariat attempts and she can lay down some solid pressure/frame traps for counter hits, but once you get in on her/knock her down she’s done. Still remains a 5-5 IMO. Dudley is a 4-6 in giefs favor now. Gief can easily out footsie dudley/punish his meaty fierce punches. Outside of EX Jet upper and Parry, he has zero wake up options.

Boxer is literally the exact same matchup as super. 5-5. Boils down to who has the best footsies/spacing. I think it got better for gief since there’s more recovery on headbutt and damage nerfs on scaled ultra I.

669

I can’t believe you guys still even pay attention to anything sswyu posts…

670

Very interesting analysis. Most said Akuma would be a worse matchup, but you really think the air tatsu change makes it easier? Even with EX GH losing knockdown? Ditto on Sagat…I’m surprised you think the matchup is better.

671

since this is the most active thread I have a quick question, what is Zangief’s invincibility on EX banishing flat in AE? The AE frame data doesn’t give it. The SSFIV Frame data says frames 1-13 so I’m going to assume it’s the same for now

672

whats your name on xbl

673

Skill will always overcome bad mu’s. As far as Oni and Evil Ryu, it’s way too early to assume anything. Most have no clue what they can even do and it’ll take some time to figure them out. Every time I face them I’m basically learning on the go even though most have been utterly horrible.

674

It’s in my profile:

A1MIGHTYMALACH1

675

I didn’t know snake eyes played AE

Edit: Good shit by Snake Eyes

Sent From Hueco Mundo Using Garganta Talk

676

All I have to say is: wow! Gief is GODLIKE in AE. I was probably getting frustrated with my first AE experience since I was still attempting very noobish tactics, but after time in the lab and some introspection it’s clear why Gief should be feared even more.

The nerf to EX GH seems meaningless and I almost am thankful for it now after having some time to understand this new build; it feels like Gief has been given more options after the hits are landed than before with the knockdown. If they stay in place you SPD, if they jump back you buffer into ground-launched U2, if they dash back you can pursue and stalk them into the corner.

And on the subject of U2, it’s become an amazing tool for multiple situations. It’s definitely great to be able to steer Gief to chase an opponent, but a whiffed ultra can lead to a nifty escape flight. Sure it might be a bit of a waste of the ultra but there are some matchups where being stuck in the corner makes blowing the ultra to fly across the screen to safety worthwhile.

In terms of matchups, has anyone had difficulties with Gen? It seems like that match has changed a bit in Gen’s favor.

677

And made it into Top 8 for the day. Made my goal (woot woot).

Anyways. Some more info for you guys.
(left being in favor of)

6-4 / 7-3. DeeJay.

Regarding the Deejay matchup. I played a set with Da Knut Forever (#1 ranked Deejay on XBL). Deejay has easily moved into a 6-4 matchup. Debatably a 7-3. Even with the blizzard his anti-air options are bar none. Not to mention reduced recovery on his air-slasher (sonic boom). He doesn’t need to use up kicks to own you now. The match is a giant spacing battle. Short jumps are crucial, but jumping period is something I advise against completely since his slide kick destroys any jump in attempt. If you jump in with siberian blizzard, he can stand fierce anti-air you with ease

If Deejay gets a knock-down on you prepare to do a LOT of blocking. His air-knee does not trade with lariat (especially if timed correctly). You’re better off blocking and hoping for him to do an unsafe distance dash kick. Did I mention that is crouching strong now shuts down GH? If they know the spacing that crouching strong will stuff your GH-distance closing. (just something you should be aware of)

4-6. Makoto. Gief still makes short work of makoto. Her wake up options still suck and you can SPD blocked hayate’s. The only time you’re in danger is in the corner where she can start her hayate cancel non-sense. Gief beats her in the footsies battle. O~S pokes shut her “long range” poke game down.

5-5. Adon. (Lowered from yesterday of 6-4. Played some higher end players today. With his new wake up timing this match has gotten more difficult for adon. With good spacing you can almost entirely shut down his jaguar kick game/punish any fake jaguar tooth baits with kara-EXGH. However the reason adon stays at five is due to his neutral jump MK. It beats lariat, back-dash, forward dash on wakeup. You have no option other than to block and wait for a crouch tech to get him off you.

6-4. Ibuki. Kunai are still stupidly annoying. Her back-dash is what makes this a bad matchup. Haven’t fully confirmed it yet, but i’m having a hell of a time trying to EX-GH her back-dash with no dice =/ . She may not be able to do Kunai cross up crap as much, but she can out turtle you. Her wake up option of EX-Upkick > kunai still gives her free getaways. Next to Yun I rate her being the second best at running away. You need to think three steps ahead of her if you want to do decent in this match. Best strategy is to walk her into a corner. Stay at 3/4 screen and watch for her command dash.

6-4. El Fuerte. Once you get knocked down you’re screwed just like super. Any good el fuerte player will be cross up splashing/slide kick/baiting the entire match. Ultra I for him has become very powerful in this match due to it’s anti-air abilities. Makes jump in’s extremely difficult. The only time you’ll be dealing damage is on blocked in front splashes. Back-dash SPD on tortilla propeller whiff. A badly timed slide kick. The rest of the time you won’t touch him. Without a knockdown on him this matchup gets even tougher than super.

5-5. Abel. The nerf to his ultra II startup time helps significantly. This boils down to a solid footsie game. It can go either way. (keep in mind that his standard tornado throw beats Ultra I clean during the ultra flash)

5-5. Bison. Remains the same as super, but with that extra scissor kick push-back his only defensive pokes are crouching strong and standing roundhouse. (The crouching strong keeps GH from closing distance on the short-range). This match can go either way since his wake up options are quite limited. Nothing new to report.

4-6. Evil Ryu. Evil Ryu has to take a lot of risks to do damage. Once you corner him he’s toast. The high recovery on his fireball makes safe jumping very easy and setting up SPD ranges a sinch. His focus attack is awful and the only thing you need to watch out for is random EX-Axe-kick.

4-6. Oni. His options are abysmal, his damaging combos require him to be near point blanka. You can focus his fierce zoning hand on reaction (practically). You play him like Gouken, but without worry about the parry. His wake up options are an un-FADC-able SRK, EX-Ground Pound. All you need to do is stay just out of ex-slash(crossup) range and there’s not a damn thing he can do offensively without that or having to blow 2 meters. Fireballs are insanely easy to deal with since you know the exact range of level 1 fireball dissipation you can just banish it. (side note: You can jab Oni out of ex-crossup slash on startup)

4-6. Yang. His only offensive tools is a dive kick which seems to trade with lariat quite often. Rekka slashes on a hit confirm and well that’s pretty much about it. His Up-Kicks aren’t nearly as good and FADC roll upkick you can see a mile away. You’ll see this become the new runaway match. Without that ex-dash punch yang is rather screwed with tools since his pokes are mediocre in comparison to gief’s standing strong. Gief wins this one easily.

  • I haven’t played enough blanka to make a judgement on him yet. The ball knock-back (trolol) helps quite a bit.

  • El Fuerte

  • Hakan still sucks.

  • Still debating on Gouken

  • Juri is the exact same as super

  • Still looking through the options on ken (might do a write up of his matchup separately)

678

Are you sure about the ibuki wake up ex kicks they are pretty easy to bait out and get stuffed by ex GH or u2

Sent From Hueco Mundo Using Garganta Talk

679

I also second the Ibuki eval. With meter, Gief always has an option out the vortex. Which essentially is what makes that character worthy in the first place.

680

They are easy to bait. They only get stuffed if you hit them JUST AFTER the invincibility frames end. If you’re point blank you’ll be stuck in block too long leaving her too high to EX-GH and you’ll eat a kunai.