Still punishable.
but about which frame disadvantage we’re takin here?
some video proof that shows that he gets grabbed / c.lp / srk etc?
Same as it always was, your opponent can do pretty much anything. The numbers are irrelevant, you can still be SRKed.
Gouken can do cr hp xx pain after blocking ex hand, to give you an idea of its punishability still. Some people have said that it occasionally leaves him out of throw range though, so punishes are going to have to be more attack-based and less normal throw-based I guess. But for Gief players, the basic point is that it’s still quite punishable on block.
Whats the frame advantage on Ex.GH on hit? His game definitely changed but now since his lp.spd range is increased its easier to implement it in so called “safe pressure” situations.
I think it’s +2 or +3 on hit. I say this because if you try to SPD immediately after hitting EXGH, it will whiff, but the frame advantage is not enough to combo into another c.lk.
EX GH berf (buff/nerf) might just be a mind game thing.
They mash, w block and punish with spd.
They do nothing but back up, we can still (feasibly) lp spd
Or if they back dash you can do another EX GH.
wonder if new lp spd grabs players that aren’t sagat after backdash…
Something I noticed that I’m not sure if people know yet:
Trying to absorb a Ryu fireball, I Counter Hit with LP GH and got a knockdown. It was pre-emptive (read: silly) so it hit in startup frames.
Not really sure what this means (I mean who in their right mind is gonna go fishing for Counter Hit KDs with normal GH), but nonetheless, something to watch for.
Man I can’t remember HITTING someone with a normal GH lol
Had quite a bit of time with the game today, tested some stuff out for Gief. I don’t really feel like editing my notes so I’m just gonna copy/paste them verbatim, meaning watch out for laziness and rambling. Where there are question marks, I still need to do more investigating.
–Zangief
-----after spd to lp hand, can i spd someone who mashes a 3frame normal?
----------never got to test
-----try to spd everything from farther than i think it will work
----------I mean, I had some success, but not all that much really; range buff doesn?t seem that significant to me so far
-----pilot u2 around for a while, any safer
----------can be moved a lot in both directions, can wiggle back and forth too
----------if done as jump starts going up, can make it fly full screen in whichever direction
----------if done near end of jump, can?t really be controlled
----------definitely safer but obviously matchup dependent; I did it going upwards in Sagat?s face, flew over his head to the other side full screen, but he did u1 as I was coming down and hit me
-----buff to u2 range or active grabbing frames?
----------forgot to test
-----short jump
----------still there
-----air hittable hitbox seem any different
---------didn?t notice differences
-----recheck safeness of far mk?
----------didn?t get to recheck but doesn?t look different; was safe against reversal ryu dp last time i checked but that seems impossible, think we probably just screwed up
-----mash spd asap after landing ex hand, is opponent throwable (ie out of hitstun) immediately?
----------tried both lp and hp spd, both worked some times but not others, not sure why
-----any change to ex hand range
----------not noticeable, but now can be used at range where before only would hit once and be unsafe on hit, if used there now it?s safe on hit, so effectively the range is increased a bit
-----cr lk, cr lk link any easier
----------didn?t notice a difference
-----does lariat have any more range (ie cr lk, cr lk xx lariat)
----------nope, neither lariat will combo after cr lk cr lk unfortunately
-----sweeps any safer on block or any faster startup?
----------didn?t get to test but they look the same
----------tried to link far st lp to cr hk but couldn?t get it to work, probably doesn?t
-----dashes any faster
----------look the same
-----lariat fadc ex hand, u2
----------no sir
-----buffed spd damage noticeable?
----------yessir, about as much as 360k now (but obviously much worse positionally still)
-----ex spd is same
-----focus crumple, u2?
----------no, not even crumple to focus again u2
-----far 360k still suck?
----------suuuuure does, just take that useless input out of the game already Capcom
-----punished blanka ball so easily
----------fierce ball with dt+rh
----------far ball (mp maybe?) with HP HAND, not even ex; knocks him out of the air like against Cammy after blocking her dp
----------ex ball with ex hand (maybe hp hand works too, didn?t try)
-----I literally went entire matches without getting a single up-close knockdown or getting in range to try a single splash, which is retarded
-----rival is abel
Thanks ultra for the updates much appreciated by us whos arcades dont have ae yet. My question is what combos leave you where ie. Will cross splash lk to exgh leave you in hp spd range but splash clp clp clp lk exgh leave you out of all spd range. Or is it char dependent like after exgh on cammy you wiff lp spd but nail hawk. It seems interesting . Also something I have been seeing around is that your spacing after exgh on block is not always as close so they can’t just mash grab anymore is this true and if so could you use max spacing to bait a grab and spd. Also how’s the guile/sim/Seth match now?
Oh yeah I forgot to write that down for some reason. It’s true, if you do ex hand from far enough away and the opponent blocks, he can’t punish with throw. Happened to me a couple times actually, and yeah, I got spd there. But he’s still punishable on block frame-wise and he’s not out of attack range, so I figure that everyone’s just gonna have to learn how to punish ex hand with combos or knockdowns… which most characters should have been doing already anyway. They might also just be able to take a step forward and then throw, too.
Where I ended up after ex hand combos seemed pretty much the same regardless of whether I did cr lk cr lk xx ex hand or the full cr lp cr lp cr lp st lp st lk xx ex hand. Whether the spd worked immediately after didn’t seem to depend on spacing, it always looked like I was in the same spot. Seems like Gief ends up in the same spot whenever he’s close enough to combo into it, it’s only when he does it from buffered footsie range and hits the hitbox in an opponent’s extended normal that he ends up too far to do anything after.
I haven’t played against Guile, Sim, or Seth yet, sorry.
That is pretty great news, thanks a bunch for all the testing and info. I haven’t made it back to CF since Festivus but before I go I will try to remember to post if anyone has specific things they want tested; tough to test things there unless you have an accomplice.
ex rbg after full length combo when out of range for spd works unless people counter on reaction with proper multi hit moves or fast double pokes
I’m curious as to whether you are in close normal range or not after an EXGH.
Bigbig ups to UltraDavid for those posts. Very helpful/insightful!
two things i take from ud’s notes:
1.spd range is kinda overrated. most think this is gonna be some kind of game changer but i really don’t think so. yes, it’s a nice buff but will it really make a huge difference? personally i think it will make careless players whiff way more spd attempts which means much more chances to get punished hard.
2.“I literally went entire matches without getting a single up-close knockdown or getting in range to try a single splash, which is retarded”-this is the main reason why i think giefs gonna suck in ae. going entire matches without a single kd sounds like it’s really gonna suck but we’ll see.
Who’s careless with their spds?
THIS^^ One measly training mode square. Better than nothing but not a game changer in most cases either.
Maybe referencing the fact that Giefs are trying to scoop from ranges pretty absurd…and it’s actually working becasue people are poking and extending their grab-able hitboxes. Something gief was always able to do, but now people are trying their luck more with the “buff”.
I don’t care much if it’s gamechanging or not. More range is a buff and one I’m pretty happy about.
It’ll make a Gief walking forward that much more of a mindfuck to your opponent.
It’s like in ST when you can grab someone a good ways away (like 2/5 screen) with a jab spd.