In other words, everyone who tries a backdash/anything other than stay on ground can eat U2 post EX-GH. If they do nothing then walk in SPD perhaps / walk them into the corner? Still isn’t as great as the KD of former glory, but U2 > U1 now I suppose. Still have to guess whether they’ll backdash or jump…
So what’s to stop someone from doing say DP FADC back after a EXGH? It takes what 6 frames to actually jump, plus the 7th frame to get U2 out right - not even adding in the frame/s lost during the cool down of the EXGH(correct me if I’m wrong please)…in that time frame, you should already be smacked by the DP before you can activate the ultra, and you have to COMMIT yourself to it from a timing perspective, so its not reactionary on your part. I’m not great with frames - but I really don’t get why anyone with a DP can’t simply ‘mash’ DP out when getting hit by EXGH, and FADC on reaction to Gief blocking. And if they are knocked far away enogh on EXGH that a DP would miss clean, thn them back dashing should be fast enough/far enough to ‘escape’ U2.
Also - basing an entire ‘approach off of U2’ seems kinda flawed, you don’t have it for usually the first half of the fight, and once its used, its not frequent that you get a second one…so is it really viable to consider that one option as ‘consistently usable tool’? I mean I usually land multple EXGH combos in match…its not a singular moment/setup - that was part of the beauty of the vortex/it. I’m honestly more interested in what we can consistently do mix-up wise.
Trying to digest this frame crap a little bit…
Correct me if I’m wrong…
Ryu’s DP (all of them) 3 frame startup - so on frame 4 he is active…
Gief’s ‘jump’ requires 6 frames of ‘start-up’ (can’t find that but I read it somewhere shrug)…
Gief’s U2 requires 1+2 (is that 3?) rames to start-up…
So @ a minimum Gief needs 7 frames to perform a perfect U2…and if not perfect, you either give Ryu more frames to launch a DP - or cancel the jump into a RBG
If Ryu needs 4 frames to hit Gief, then EXGH would need to be greater than +3 on hit in order to snuff Ryu’s DP attempt.
Did I do that right? And if so, then realistically it would need to be +4 - which is c.lk link territory…and I doubt that based on what I’ve seen.
So why can’t shotos/clones just do DP->FADC on reaction?
played a lot of gief yesterday in AE and while im still not %100 on the ex gh not knocking down the fear players have of that range for jab SPD might almost make up for it it makes them play more on edge which already puts the match in your favor in terms of mind games, im gonna be going back and playing some more today ill post up on my sessions.
On a side note in terms of landing a ex gh and them not having any options but back dashing I think that plays more into our favor they will close themselves into the corner and we all know how beast gief can be when locking down in the corner. No knockdown just forces gief users to come up with more mind games and as I said earlier getting just one jab spd sets up knockdown mindgames, the range is INSANE you should be landing those a lot.
They may very well be able to DP FADC completely safely, but overall seems like projectile characters are building less meter from plasma, so zoning and poking means that they won’t be able to FADC as often.
Listen to this man, he’s one of the only non-noobs on this joke of a thread. I literally can’t believe how stupid people are STILL saying the new ex-gh is a “buff” after seeing the rose vs. zangitan vid where he gets beaten because of this new “buff”
The evidence is literally right in your face and the scrubs still don’t understand it, I guess that’s what makes them scrubs.
Anyway prepare to be completely owned by any sagat with 1/2 a brain, the matchup is worse than it was in vanilla.
You don’t always have enough EX meter to DP FADC. And, anyways, if I knew someone was going to waste two bars everytime I hit them with a EXGH, I would be quite pleased…as they back away closer to the corner with no meter.
Plus, not everyone has 3 frame FADCable reversals. In fact, those are a rarity in this game, even though people talk like they’re everywhere.
Plus plus, I was under the impression that Gief has a slight frame advantage after hitting a EXGH, so that should help, too.
Ok here is what happens when you do the U2 after EX-HG and the opponent DOESN’T have a 3 frame reversal:
[media=youtube]J0QW0KMZk6g[/media]
More video evidence right in the face of scrubs and the sad thing some IDIOT is going to reply to it with some stupid response that will just show they don’t understand the basics of this game, I GUARANTEE IT.
Less meter doesn’t mean no meter, and without Vortex, the amount of meter WE build in my theory shrinks along with the # of times we land EXGH comboes.
:bluu:
I don’t consider myself good by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel like I’m either REALLY dumb or everyone else is missing something
if they think of U2 as a truly viable long term tool. It will work ‘right now’, but by the time this goes ‘live’ on consoles (the day will come)…will it really be viable as everyone has figured out some form of safe escape? It’s not like before where UD had developed an extensive list of OSs for knockdown situations.
:bluu:
Oh I’m not trying to pretend like eveyrone has a 3 frame reversal, and we don’t have the frame data on the new EXGH on hit - but is it really going to be so loose that pulling out a 4 or 5 frame reversal will mean you eat the U2? Hell at 4 frames, if Gief with a U2 stock lands an EXGH its pretty much predictable that he’s ‘jumping’ - why can’t they pull out their variants of our c.lk which shut down jumping? You don’t ‘always’ have to dp FADC - you only have to do something like that @ the point Gief has U2 (as you pointed out with regards to when they have stocks) - and in this game/engine if you LAND the DP - then Gief more than likely is losing any and all position and/or a nice chunk of health. In short…
Gief w/o U2 lands EXGH combo - Chun-li mashes jab, nothing short of EXSPD can beat it, but the EXSPD might not have the range thanks to the randomness that appears to be the knockback distance.
Gief w/ U2 lands EXGH combo - its safe to assume that they have a decent amount of stock built up - so its worth while to dp->FADC on reaction. If you BEAT the Gief to the punch, you get a free ultra juggle/position reset…if Gief was bluffing…you burned two stocks, and pushed yourself back a little, but avoided any major damage/vortex options.
What’s funny to me is that some people here are actually using u2 as a justification that gief is better now. So basically a complete guessing ultra makes ex.gh not causing kd better lol? oOkay, so lets say u land an ex.gh then go for u2 and miss? First off, you’re probably gonna get punished hard. Secondly, now it’s back to players just mashing dp, jumping back, or backdashing and u can’t do shit about it if u guess wrong.
Well, no way EX SPD has the range to grab anyone after EXGH, since lp SPD doesn’t have the range without walking forward. Also, Gief has frame advantage after EXGH hit, so at the very least +1, which means one of his 4 frame normals should beat mashed 3f jabs from whomever. I think Gief is going to undergo a large playstyle shift away from EXGH and towards playing for sweeps, regular throws, and suplexes for full mixups and SPDs for footsies. EXGH will be damage and walking the victim towards a corner with very little follow up; hence my planning to go directly back into footsies after a EXGH hit unless it is a CH, and then it is full mixup. Not saying he didn’t get nerfed re: EXGH, just saying that there is plenty of room for adaptation.
As Gief, I will be back dashing or blocking nearly exclusively after a GH hit. Risk-reward was ‘supposed’ to be in Gief’s favor, not on that sequence. EX GH is a corner pushing tool, NOT NOT NOT a mixup tool. We are not Ken.
Aye - Gief’s normals ‘should’ be able to trade/beat someone elses jab…but that is NOT U2 (not even factoring in the range). I’m just not agreeing with the U2 crowd more than anything…its too vulnerable, predictable…and will only work for the next month or so. Long term the only aggresive thing I see being feasible (depending ENTIRELY on the frame verdict) is to sneak a c.lk after a EXGH combo in hops of tagging retaliation and following thru with the EXGH on hit (though thats practically the end at that point, but it does continue corner push).
So I bought Street fightre 4 for my iPad…
True story…c.lkx3, c.rh comboes…
give us back the old school sweep please…kthanxbuhbye.
What i cant believe is how people can get that aggressive over a video game. Especially considering most people havent played it yet, nor do most people pretend to be super specialists at the game. Buy some icecream and calm down.
:arazz: I’m actually getting off my CoD kick and getting serious again, though I’m maining Sim/Seth/Bison…just feel most comfortable with Gief at this point still.
I had sticker shock wit hthe nerf, I’m fine with it now, just don’t see why folks act like U2 will ‘save the vortex’ or something. As I said earlier - and stick with, I think Gief wil lfocus more on pushing folks against the corner and trying to keep them there - than Vortex, I also think footsies wil lbecome even more important, fortunatly, the way folks are playing - Gief actually is looking good, but thats because of character selection more so than the characters themselves.
Ok the u2 buff looks great also I don’t think people get u2. U pick u2 so you can land more suplex’s/combos not so you can land u2. Newbies get hit by u2, mid level to upper mid level get locked down by it then hit with it. Once they are grounded it opens up mixup game. I have no prob wiffing a u2 on wake if I have a nice life lead and it won’t kill me or round 1 because if you miss that means you know they are ready for it and they are locked down ambiguios empty jump suplex works great at this point. And with the buff it will work even better. With the u2 after ae exgh if you can train people to fear it then you open other shit up and it’s a 50/50 with one option being an ultra so it will lock them down.
Wow I called someone a “non-noob” which is barely a compliment and you get all jealous and catty about it? You need to get laid son, so funny to see jealousy on a zangief SSF4 character thread lol.
I just got back from CTF and played AE. I went early so I got to play a lot but there was no comp.
The new jab SPD is so good. All of the stupid little gimmicks into SPD like whiff st.HK -> LP SPD and whiff jump-in, LP SPD are even better now. I played some Gief mirrors with AquaSilk and it was just a lot of gimmicky jab SPDs.
Problem is, there’s barely any “vortex” (although i think that term sux). You don’t get to cross people up anymore unless you get an anti-air lariat, U2, or suplex…
I also think when AE Gief crosses up it’s better to go for cr. LK -> K Lariat or even one of his sweeps, just to get the knockdown. If you get pushed out, oh well, you’re gonna get pushed out when you EX GH anyway.
The EX GH nerf is so shitty. First of all it just feels wrong. I can’t get the timing for a cr. LP after an EX GH hits. It feels like trying to get someone with cr. LP after a blocked EX Green hand in SSF4, lol.
Second, I think at high level play people are just gonna backdash like fuck after EX GH hits. At most ranges I’m not even sure the ultra 2 will work. Even if it does, we have to pick shitty ultra 2 just so people won’t backdash?
I still kinda think Gief is better just because I’m so happy with all the nerfs people got. Ryu, Akuma, Cammy, Honda matchups definitely got better. Thats all i have to say
