Oh my god, amazing. They replace Kumachopter with Geifchopter. Anti-air ultra? GET TO DA CHOPPER!
Does that mean Juns anti air Ultra beats Giefs U2 ? I hope not since Giefs U2 beats everything but EX DPs in SSF4.
i got to play with him yesterday and dam idk. i think they might have buffed the range on U1 because i caught some people from pretty far like T.hawks u1. i had like 3 wins then i faced sanfords sagat that match might literally be impossible now. the whole match i only got 1 knock down and i did some damage but its just way to hard to get in now. Maybe we just have to use the character in a completely different way
fixed…
Thanks for the report. Really makes me question where the gameplay is supposed to go. Sagat, Cody, Guile, Sim, Balrog, Rufus… matchups we could stay competitive in or even dominate bc of the KD are now…IDK man.
Possible good news re:guile. Seems if he is hit during his sonic boom recovery it is a counter hit. This may mean a kd for reading/reacting to a boom. Seems to be only for him and deejay maybe
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I just read this entire thread, it should be no debate what Gief losing his KD means. Against strong projectile characters with good footsies (Akuma/Chun-Li or even just good keep away characters, Sagat/Guile), that knock down was everything. And you don’t even get many opportunities against someone who is good.
I’ve always thought this, if no knock down on EX hand means “free escape,” then his bad match-ups will just get a hell of a lot worse. There is no better place for Sagat or Guile to be than grounded, where they can’t anti-air you and knock you across the screen.
I’m still going to try Gief out in AE if I ever get to, but it doesn’t make sense for him to lose his main tool for damage against projectile characters. SF4 already works against grapplers, why else would none of the grapplers place high in a tournament setting? =P Hell, they’re not even popular online, so changing Gief for casual players doesn’t make sense to me.
Gief wants his opponent grounded and cornered, ANYTHING that makes this harder is a serious nerf. The difference with other characters getting nerfed is that it’s mainly damage based (and they still have plenty of other options that are reliable), they still have their TOOLS to deal consistent and reliable damage. Anyway, I just hope things pan out somewhat well for my main over time. However, I think Zangief will just have to work much harder for his reward, in a system where he already had disadvantages against many characters.
From the Dhalsim forum.
Doesn’t happen in the corner. He can only teleport directly behind you or in front of you, still in the corner. Throw/lariat are the options. I’m not exactly sure, but I’m guessing recovery on both is similar.
My impressions are that the vortex is a goner. So is any meaty followup post-SPD. However, throw/attack/block still remain. The odd counter EXGH exists (for Guile’s SB from experience, and I’m guessing others are also more than likely) so shenanigans are still possible (say, if he booms you from the corner, and assuming he doesn’t tech).
EXGH at max range is a LOT of pushback - but if you can’t punish them, they can’t punish you either, plus they’re closer to the corner. And who knows how many knee-jerk DPs you’ll catch… and PUNISH (admittedly, still early days, but in the heat of the moment, I caught one Sagat several times - very satisfying). Not at max range? Throw/attack/block still remain as post-EXGH options. If you hit EXGH in-range (say, after a BnB combo), 360K is RBG, but HP SPD connects. My guess is lariat (arms, not shoulder) will catch jumpers, but I was having too much fun SPD’ing after EXGH. And even so, up-back? They’re moving closer to the corner.
So keep moving them back. Block/focus/nj FBs all day. KKK Lariat FBs out of GH range (or c.mk high Tiger Shots).
You might’ve guessed that I play Gief with the corner in mind. I stay out of footsie range when walking forward, but try to be just within GH range - fireballs are risky, plus they can’t really try and touch me without me at least seeing it coming… It teaches me to be patient, and narrow their escape. I get hurt/swept/s.hk’d/c.mk XX FB’d when I lose patience. On the plus side, in the new build, the only real corner escape is Viper’s SJ->Burning Kick. And God knows she needs it.
(Assuming she doesn’t use c.mk XX lp Knuckle and nj. mk well)
I play Gief like a moving wall. I use headbutt a LOT, and for the most part, a harmless scare tactic. But if it hits… ooh boy, you bet they tighten up a lot. And then? Walk up, SPD.
If they stick out a limb from the corner to keep you out, LP SPD. You can catch them from just past the timer if they do, and if you prefer footsies, especially s.lk XX EXGH, throw/attack/block still remain as options after that sweet pimp-slap.
You know what, forget Green Hand. It is no longer what you’ll be winning with.
s.hk and s.mp will be your new friends. Kick. Chop. PUSH. You’d be surprised how far it gets you when they’re scared of your SPD range and just blocking.
And once you’re in the corner, keep the footsie pressure up. Slap them silly. And when they’re sleeping?
S-P-D.
I dunno where I read it, maybe the Matchup thread, but the whole idea is to make them forget about throws by using footsies. And then make them scared of being SPD’d when they’re sleeping. T/he REAL mixup is psychological terror. You’re fighting a cold, cold war out there fellas.
I didn’t pick Gief pre-SF4 because it was easy. In fact I picked Gief because he’s hard to win with. It makes every win so much more satisfying. And the new playstyle fits me to a T. I’m proud to main Zangief come sun, rain, or blizzard.
LOL. Nominated. that post actually gives me hope…very odd.
Still dont know what we’ll do with characters that PWN Gief toe to toe, when the KD was the only matchup saver. But I guess some Giefs out there will figure it out.
I’m sorry but if you think walk up lp spd to catch limbs is a viable strategy I’ve got news for you. If you whiff against a decent opponent they will punish you, potentially with ultra, because lp spd is 52 frames of recovery, which is almost 2 full seconds of you doing the arturo sanchez air hug.
It’s a guessing game that is in the opponent’s favor, you guess right you get 180 dmg and a reset of the situation, you guess wrong and the opponent punishes you for much more than that, with a knockdown probably.
you said it best. i will keep gief as my main character no matter what. on the plus side the spd is insanely effective from far range, i watched numerous vids of spds sucking in players from out of nowhere. i think there may be some hidden tricks we can use as an alternative to exgh/gh against certain characters we needed to knock down. my feeling is capcom wants gief players to increase the effectiveness of our ground game. Ill reserve judgement until i actually play AE.
I just played AE. In general GH knockdown was better. But if you hit exgh in the corner is a 1 second gessing game 80% on our favor. You can just block and wait to see what they gonna do in that split second if the stay there, spd. if they jump headbutt. Which i used alot since jumping seems like the first reaction. If you know the OS GH thing and you can push people to the corner you are going to rock. I still cant do it consistently but i can poke the hell out of them then when they forget i just walk up spd. I was talking to someone and he told me that if you hit an airborne opponent with exgh that you could U2. I dindt have a chance to try since the waiting line was almost an hour and i picked U1. Hopefully thats true 
Gief still the same but no KD. and even if they take out Spd and lariat i would main him. its been almost 20 years playing him ONLY. Hopefully everybody whos not loyal to gief run to another character and only they true fans stay here. Im proud to be one of the few Zangief player that will remain.
And rememer: russian wrestling is always number one. Zangief 4 ever and ever.
Just thought, teleports have pretty ass properties.
If you ex hand, and say akuma teleports away, he’d be in range for an lp spd/another hand if he went behind you !
any word on the cr.lk links? i can’t believe no one has reported back on this yet. personally this would’ve been one of the first things i’d find out.
True… if they’re smart and moving in and out of the corner plus using footsies to mess up your spacing. Against a player that good, there’s bound to be risk. So use the safer “poke XX EXGH” on their limbs instead and then you’ve got a much stronger guessing game. There’s no chance of eating whiff-> ultra there. 180dmg is a lot when tacked onto EXGH, but you’ll be able to use HP, so what’s that, 220 + GH dmg? Do it a few times, scare them out of poking you back, and walk up lp spd becomes much more viable. And dangerous.
(might I add if they’re moving towards you from max SPD range, they’re moving INTO SPD range. At the moment it feels like just outside Sagat’s s.HK and Ryu’s c.mk, which is pretty freakin’ far, so it’s probably just inside, but again, it’s still early days)
Bit of theory fighter: Ultra 2?
Always.
Ah, and they still feel sluggish, so maybe it’s still a one-frame link
I tried a couple of times and it seems easier. Sometimes i notice the extra spd range and sometimes not. Lp spd damage i would say is around 190. And hp spd 240. S.HP hit box unknown LOL. Who the hell uses that stupid move. To me gief hitbox in the air still the same but short jump is a little shorter. When there is not a one hour line to play i would try some other stuff.
I played AE today, unfortunately the joystick would cut out intermittently. Still did well though. A few notable things, done without extensive testing.
-c.lk link still feels like 1 frame.
-LP Spd range is noticable, damage is only maybe 10 more. I was using it mixed into footsies and it was very nice. I landed it clean (not against any attack) at nearly max range s.mp
-HP SPD damage is serious, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it is 260. I landed a HP SPD after lk tick and put my finger on the lifebar where I thought the damage would end and it went nearly a full 1/2" beyond that. I also laughed out loud and said “Good Shit”
-EXGH not knocking down is…ugh. Caught one guy sleeping after a BnB and landed SPD. Seemed safer to just land it and go right back into footsie mode.
-LPGH after spd followup, can’t comment- joystick was pretty messed up.
-Sweep and regular throw are looking like the best way to have full wakeup mixup.
I think I will be playing Gief more as a footsie character with potential mixups. Other non-projectile characters will have to flirt with lp spd range to do damage. FB characters seem to build way less meter from projectiles, so less inv. reversals overall maybe. EXGH OS’s will still do damage and close distance. Also, since backdashes are considered OTG, EXGH for backdash should knockdown. On top of that, seems like hitting someone during FB recovery is a counter hit; which may mean more knockdowns than we think- FINGERS CROSSED FOR THAT SHIT.
Hopefully I will get to play more tomorrow, they fixed the joystick at CF after I left lol.
EDIT: Projectile GH-KD, may be only certain characters-
vs Sakura 0:45- [media=youtube]gBWYFITglcs[/media]
also
vs Dan 0:23- http://www.youtube.com/user/PIKACHUAKUMA#p/u/5/onRUgxAS1js
however, vs Ryu at 14:13 there is no knockdown, [media=youtube]aCODlvisjRY[/media]
confused.
Sakura’s KD was a CH UKD. Dan’s KD was techable (see technical on his side); probably airborne/trying to jump maybe? Ryu’s was clearly non-CH, so no UKD.