i will still be maining gief for a couple reasons in AE.
his ex gh is not that big of a nerf, considering you couldn’t even get a safe jump afterwards if they teched. if you combo into ex GH in AE, you will still be in the same situation as you would be in super. you’d be standing next to your opponent, you could do a cr. lk combo or a spd, or OS into sweep for back dashes. you can still do all those things in AE, you’re just a little bit more far away. plus if you have a problem with back dashers, or people who hold up back, lets see how well U2 works now. if you guess wrong, just hold the opposite direction and fly away from them (you may not be exactly safe, but its better than landing right next to them.) my point is that its not a HUGE nerf like everyone says. if you know how to option select, not be predictable, and really know how to mix it up, gief will still be a force to be reckoned with. i think U2 is definitely the ultra of choice now, but we’ll see how well it was buffed.
im also gonna pick up yun on the side cause i played him in 3s. he seemed to transfer well to sf4.
I estimate Gief will go even (sometimes better) in most matches against characters he can push to the corner, and will lose most matches against characters he can’t.
Gief will see alot more play now because of having a great matchup against Yun/yang. But I would assume alot of people will just learn him as an alt for counterpick. But more play is good. I would love to see more Gief mainstream.
In the long run, I’m not 100% sold yet. There are matches that Gief can on paper tend to dominate because the OPP’s specials/rushdown are heavily punished as the twins are, but some of these characters (like Fei or Viper) abandon those specials/rushdown and concentrate more on zoning footsies. Then the matchup “levels off”. But yeah, on the other hand characters like Dudley need a miracle to beat a top Gief.
I just think that as a character is developed, their success against a grappler like Gief get better over time. So call me a pessimist, but I’m taking it with a grain for now.
sigh, it is a huge nerf, I think the noob giefs who don’t understand this simply don’t understand the power of Gief’s vortex.
And for a vortex you need a knockdown. Ex-greenhand not knocking down means you can’t start a vortex with it OR continue a vortex with it. You have to use a KKK lariet or sweep which are both super slow and punishable.
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Look at this and tell me it’s not a huge nerf, the spacing can be so bad he can’t even SPD (the NEWLY BUFFED lp SPD as well) afterwards.
In fact I have a challenge for you and to EVERY SINGLE GIEF on this subforum that thinks the new ex-gh is not a huge nerf. I challenge them to post up a vid of one of their matches, I GUARANTEE you they play like a PPP, mashing 360 scrub. I bet NONE of them use gief’s vortex and NONE of them know how to play gief properly.
Well last night I had a spar with a friend of mine and thought about what UD was saying about the SPD-GH ‘movement’ being delayed and that really has me nervous. I’m honestly just marinating on the playstyle shift with the weakening of the vortex. Seems like hte corner is going to become even more important, and the vortex might be even become more of a corner trap than anything else. :shrug: but even with the changes, I don’t see Gief plummeting…just having to work alot harder to get the same results.
^^ the corner will be way more important. I’m less worried about ex gh not knocking down than most. I don’t think most chars will have a get out of jail free move. As long as there is a counter move that keeps you in such as spd if they sit or jump forward u2 to punish jump back. I need to play a bunch but without the knock down to figure out how to vortex but I think it can be done mixing in exgh. Also it might speed up the pace of things less time for them to sit on the ground and think might be a bit of a hidden benefit.
Would I like exgh to still knock down but it does not so we adapt or die. We can sit and bitch or adapt and try and get the most out of it instead of it just letting people hold up back. Kick lariet after exgh might punish back jumps/nj’ and trade/stuff most reversals also locking people down opening up followup spd’s.
Also I know how to run a vortex, I think I came up with the term zangief vortex might be wrong and it doesn’t matter.
No dude, kkk lariet will not be punishing upback after an ex-gh hit, did you not watch the video I posted in my last post? Sometimes the spacing is so bad he can’t even lp SPD rose after ex-gh. You need to be RIGHT next to someone for the first hitbox of lariet to hit someone holding upback, and ex-gh puts them quite far from you.
Well the question if no knockdown on exgh is a big nerf is stupid, of course it is. but if our other bad matchups are better ill take it. My biggest question is how did his normals change?
Does MP have a bigger hitbox?
is cr LK 2 frames?
Is MK Safer?
is cr. MK safer?
Is his Air Hitbox smaller?
and Does jumping knees change your trajectory in the air now so we can bait antiairs better?
and as far as his specials is regular GH safe on hit now? If it is there is no reason to do EXGH in combos anymore.
Hopefully some of these changes happened and if so you wont here me bitching about EXGH hell i played ST back in the day with no EXGH and was fine(of course super and SPD could be combo’ed)
^^ Regular GH is still unsafe on hit and from the footage I’ve seen, his air hitbox doesn’t seem to be any different. Dunno about MK and MP, though I doubt those changed either. I could be wrong, though.
Well it looks like we will probably have a few matchup problems still.
Chun li(losing the 3lk anti air helps but not that much)
Sagat(does not look good but hopefully we can SPD his RH on wiff and same with Chunli)
Goken(maybe with his buffs, he was already a 5-5)
Fei might be able to safe rekka us to death
cody might destroy us
But then we get improvements on others
Blanka looks much easier
Seth looks easier
Ryu,Akuma, Ken is easier with no getaway tatsu
I dont know it is looking like the same as always couple of really good matchups, couple of really bad ones, some 5-5’s. Hopefully something is discovered, i guess we just need to wait for framedata and damage outputs.
Don’t forget Guile who we’ll have less KD opportunities to rape his suspect wakeup.
I also think people are underestimating how much worse Sagat will be now. Remember that match is 8-2 when he’s on his feet, but 2-8 when he’s on his back near the corner.
DJ will be even shittier.
On the getaway tatsu, call me stupid but that gave me the opportunity to stun fools with the HB. I hope people still try that escape so i can use that might even be more effective now.
I think Akuma is gonna be harderfor Gief, not easier. Once he gets u2 there’s no reason for him to not teleport whenever Gief gets close, because if Gief does green hand to follow him, Akuma can just mash u2 out of the tp to bust him. Yay! Pretty similar match otherwise, just worse pressure for Gief.
I think no air tatsu escape is big against Ryu. The return of antiair dp trade ultra sucks, but no escape is real nice. And the nerfing of Blankas horizontal ball and ex rainbow escape will make that better for sure.
But keep in mind that lots ot characters with no good escapes beat Gief. Guile, Chun, Sagat, etc.
i didnt think about u2 for akuma, that will suck. As far a guile him doing less damage and building less meter should help that match be more even like it was in vanilla. dj was not a big problem before but he could be now, david i know you havent had a lot of time with the game but do you notice any difference is giefs jump, are his jumping normals and hitbox more like vanilla?
I only had a couple games with Gief man, didn’t really check that much stuff out. I didn’t notice anything different about jump or air attacks or short jump, but I wasn’t looking for it. I was concentrating more on Giefs ground game.
Last night I saw a Yun player activate an anti air ultra against Geif’s jump in. In reaction the Gief activated ultra 2, and used its new controlability to move himself out of the way… funny stuff…
UltraDavid, you’re a very attractive man and I probably wouldn’t mind giving you a bj after a couple drinks, but I’m beginning to think you aren’t very smart and you tend to talk out of your ass a lot.