SSF4 AE: Revenge of the Orbs

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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very true. but her rush down opportunities are few and far between. shes for sure a footsie character, but i dont think she has that great of footsies. i mean on the high end yes of course, but they fail me in matches with bison, boxer, chun and the like. ya know the important ones? so to me shes more catered for zoning and punishing mistakes, like guile. ive always thought she was somewhat similar to guiles play style. she is rush down capable, but i have to feel really confident in the match before i do it. i have to start off with other tactics and wait for the perfect time to put on a little extra pressure.

  1. She’s still not a strictly zoning character. Yeah, she has amazing footsies and even can outfootsie Bison, Boxer Chun. She has frame traps as well to help her deal with the match-ups. Go for your counter hit meatie ass cr. lk/cr. mp and tell me it’s not good. and it doesn’t work. Also, her far st. hk or far st. mk beats pretty much all the crouching attacks Bison, Boxer, and Chun have and if mk counter hits, you cr. mp soul spiral, but this is all on an unrelated story. She does not have Guile’s playstyle at all. She plays according to match up and Guile turtles pretty much every match ups. I’m not telling you how to play Rose, but blindly saying she is a zoning + punishing mistakes character in every match up is simply wrong as there are people who have different playstyles, such as Saqs, who practically invented the rushdown Rose, Luffy, who punishes mistakes and reacts to what his opponents does, Sabin, who plays the most amazing footsies game I have ever seen, myself, who either plays full screen, mid screen, or a rushdown game, never a mixture of both, and a few other reason I might’ve missed.

**but i also wouldnt consider u2 a free wake up for massive amount of dmg. i dont get why people complain about it so much, its used on wake up just like any other random ultra on wake up. the only difference is rose’s has no recovery, but i guess thats enough to set it far enough apart of the others. for me ive never liked ultras since sf4 came out so its an issue with that part of the game design. they already messed up from the start. **

  1. It is a free wake up for a massive amount of damage. Thing about Rose’s ultra, is that it’s SAFE and that’s a big wtf. It just lets her get into an advantageous position, whether or not the ultra hits. They bait out the ultra? The ultra still puts you in an advantageous position. It’s a flawed design for this specific ultra. Say if you wake up ultra with Ryu, you can jump punish with an ultra of your own, with a big punish combo, or something of the sort. If Rose’s ultra had these properties where it could be punished, then it’s all good, it’s not a flawed design anymore. But it’s almost impossible to make this ultra PERFECTLY balanced because you either give it no recovery and invincibility and it’s good, recovery w/ invincibility, its’ terrible. no recovery w/o invinciblity, it’s terrible, and having recovery + no invincibility, which is the worst out of the three. I’m glad they are changing it since it seriously truly is flawed and no ultra should not put you in an easy advantageous position no matter how your opponent reacts to the ultra itself. There should be a position where the opponent can do something where it wouldn’t put you in an advantageous position.

That’s the problem with most Rose players nowadays.

They want a character that’s absolutely overpowered. Rose’s fine, anything done to her will either BREAK HER or KILL HER.

We were fine using Illusion Spark for a year. Ask the original like trio of Rose players that’s been here since the beginning and like didn’t drop her and advanced to such a decent level of play and then tell me that Rose needs buffing. She is a high tier character and giving her more damage would just be the icing on the cake, giving her more damage to her already broken ultra which has flawed design will break her, giving her a spammable wake up option since she’s faster than almost every other character in the game frame wise would break her. We have blocking, use it.

God U2 has spoiled the Rose community. You guys haven’t learned the true art of Rose if you can’t wake up without Ultra 2.

EDIT: For reinforcements to my last statement; I’ve had people who used Rose against mine just try to wake up on me without their ultra. All I had to do was walk forward. They either did EX Soul Spiral, which I can block on reaction of the glow and punish, back dash which I could grab since I was walking forward baiting it, or tried to tech my grab, which overall had put me in an advantageous position. They never onced blocked, even when I was abusing her lack of wake up when they had no meter in the corner with her really fast normals.

It’s really sad what some Rose players have come to, honestly.

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2. Basically, you are trying to say a zoning tool has to be good in every match up, which definitely isn’t true. For example; Rose’s Soul Spark is AMAZING to zone out Zangief, but zoning out Rufus with it isn’t exactly the greatest idea. Another example of a zoning tool that isn’t very good in every match up is rocks, kunai’s, backdashes etc etc. Even Guile’s Sonic Boom is not amazing in every match up ---- for example, Rose. Match ups Rose’s soul spark isn’t that great are Blanka, Rufus, El Fuerte, Vega, simply because it’s pretty easily punishable.

But you said it was an amazing zoning tool…if it’s amazing it’d be good in every MU. If it’s as good as rocks or kunai it’s pretty bad. Actually I don’t even think people use rocks or kunais to zone I could be mistake though.

3. Nope. She wins because the mixture of the two. Her fireballs build about 20-30 something % of 1 meter. She wins most every fireball war. Against Guile, you can do more soul sparks then he can keep up with sonic booms. You gain the meter faster than him and therefore you have more EX then him. You have to have a mixture of reflect and spark to win, because if he follows his fire ball and knows exactly when to jump because his fireball was slow and you let him get close to you, that’s your own fault. What you don’t understand is when you reflect, you have to wait for a fireball to come at you, giving them a few seconds of walking in. When you throw a spark, the spark is gonna be traveling REGARDLESS if they throw a fireball or not. Rose is one of those only match ups that forces Guile to come in at a character. She loses to Sagat @ fireball wars simply because they come faster than yours does @ different speeds so it’s hard to keep up with sparks and it’s hard to reflect them because they have different speeds.

Okay so the projectiles that come out fast and very in speed rose loses to in fire ball wars.

4.lol bad character excuse. Because it’s 1 out of the 35 match ups you need to know. You can’t rushdown Bison, actually. You have to outfootsie him. You can zone him until he gets his ultra. He has EX Psycho Crusher, which is a reliable wake up against specifically against Rose. Also, versus Guile, when he’s knocked down, go for a cross-up. That classifies as attacking rushdown and not zoning, if I recall correctly. And against Sim, you would rush him down. Why wouldn’t you? All he can do is teleport, do an ultra, or do his super, which is a reliable wake up. Sim is one of those characters you do rushdown, as he beats you in the zoning game FOR THE MOST PART.

How do you out footsie bison I’ve had a lot of trouble with scissor kick pressure and his s. RH. Also I wan’t aware that EX moves = viable wake up options. However, thanks for clearing that up.

5. Rose has fast, meaty pokes that give you a lot of + frames on counter hit and come out fast. Therefore, she has a good footsie game. Going for that counter hit to hitconfirm spiral or spark FADC is one of her main ways to get damage. Also, far st. hk is good for raw damage and has a lot of range and is coming out at a decent speed. Basically you stay in range where you can normal him while getting all your counter hits and such.

So because of the range of her normals she’s allowed to counter poke characters?

6. This version of the game, she’s perfectly balanced, any more damage she’s top tier. That’s your own problem if U2 doesn’t come out, because it comes out just fine for many of the other Rose players, such as myself. It truly isn’t difficult. Hey, we can do meterless 300 damage combos in the corner, as well as meterless 200 damage anywhere on the screen. Stop complaining. We’re fine.

If she was perfectly balanced she’d be considered the most well rounded character. However, ryu has that. Also I’m not the only rose player who struggles with u2 coming out. I’ve seen sabin sit there and ex reflect or reflect when he’s trying to use her ultra. I don’t want to hear that. He’s not the only one though. shrugs whatevers clever though.

7. I’m strictly talking about Rose… Obviously. No character should have a wake up where she can SIMPLY stand from the ground and have an attack that completely says “back up or eat atleast 60 damage.” Also, the shotos have a wake up option, but it’s HEAVILY punishable. HEAVILY punishable. Rose’s ultra comes out and it’s a free 60 damage at the LEAST. Where the fuck did Rufus and Abel come from? Abel’s U2 is good, but it isn’t great and Rufus’s U2 is really match up specific and goes through fireballs, big whoop, so does Chun Li’s U1.

Aren’t those ultras good on wake up ? one of best thing rose has against rush down is this ultra in my opinion nerfing this ultra will hurt her. Shoto’s just DP and if block they FADC. I think it’s a lil safer than rose wake up otpions. shrugs
8. If you want a high damaging bread n butter “rushdown” character, Honda’s 4 spaces away.

I can’t do jab hands and I’m really bad with charge characters so Honda’s out of the question. Besides I like the way Rose plays. I’d just like her to do more damage on her combos.

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Response to Rose’s question:

This is not true. A lot of players still have trouble using U2 perfectly, even Sabin admitted this himself. He said that sometimes EX Reflect has come out when he has tried to use U2, and he has lost tournament matches because of that. EX Reflect comes out for a lot of people, and it happens with good Rose players as well. It’s one of those inevitable mistakes that you’re going to come across.

Monkey D. Malcolm: It’s unlikely that Rose will get a buff in terms of damage. One way that you will get really good with Rose, is if you can punish your opponent’s mistakes, and zone them out as well. That compensates a lot for her less damage output compared to most of the characters.

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Yeah, I figured she wouldn’t get a damage increase but it wouldn’t hurt. When I look at how much her combos do and then see a character like makoto do that in like 2 hits. It’s really tough. But I just need to stay on my grind.

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You’d be surprise how many people zone with the lead with Kunais especially when the opponent only has one chip left. Let me tell, you there is not one zoning tool that is good in every match up, sir.

In my opinion, she really only loses to Sagat and Dhalsim. Sagat because of the speeds and almost instant recovery, and Dhalsim because of the mixups and st. fierce.

Scissors kick pressure is a frame trap which he almost always wins.

His standing Roundhouse is slower than cr. mp and just try to counterhit it. EX Wakeups work fine as a wake up. For example, Messiah Kick is awful as a regular wake up, but as an EX, it’s down right one of the best in the game.

Speed, active frames and range allow her to counter poke.

You guys are short cutting. Not my fault. double quarter circle, end on BACK. And on the subject of Ryu, how many times are you gonna get Solar Plexus in to do your bread and butter? He only does about 200 off of a cr. strong. And even then, I don’t see Ryu with a godlike backdash, slide, the grab range of a whore (no pun lolol).

They are not good ultras on wake up. Abel’s ultra 2 on wake up can easily be armor broken, waited for and jumped, easily be seen, etc etc. Rufus’s U2 can be shoryu’d, or in our case U1, or blocked and punish depending on your mood/situation. Rose however, she activates U2 and the opponent has no choice but to back up because we would be ending up on an advantageous position. Okay, Shoto’s DP and FADC. Either 1. Bait the DP and punish for massive damage (which you can’t do to Rose), or take the block and make him waste two meters to make it safe and go from there. You are also not seeing that EX Soul Spiral does the same thing. If it doesn’t actually hit, FADC back and it served its purpose. Don’t you dare say it costs meter to make it safe, because you’ll just look idiotic with your example.

Don’t be asking for so much if you barely know Rose’s playstyle. She’s fine the way she is.

@ sksksksk

maybe it’s because I am a pad player, but I don’t have trouble with it at all unless they purposely mess up my inputs (in example, Marseille roll). I haven’t gotten EX Reflect in like forever.

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I don’t think asking for more damage is asking for a lot. shrugs I don’t know man maybe it’s the opponent’s I’ve played but sometimes they don’t back up when I u2. they’ll either throw an EX move out or grab after an empty jump. But I’ll keep the things you’ve said in mind.

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Those are some pretty ballsy opponents then. 95% of the time, Satellite activates (and doesn’t hit right away), opponents go full scale retreat and either start toss projectiles or just keep running away until it wears off. The other 5% will either try to do some kind of move while on the inside to try and hit you and will usually fail miserably.

And asking for more damage is a lot for Rose really, considering how versatile she is. Satellite for sure does not deserve more damage.

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Hey Rose aka fillipinoman, you are overly aggressive in a topic that just talks about the changes to Rose. You read it as whining but I see none. Nerfing U2 however will not be beneficial to Rose, is it allowed to say so? Or do you classify this as BRAIN TUMORS from BADLY SPOILED Rose players. Why this attitude?

You seem to be the kind of player who look to be below the radar with their character, just because. just because you can have excuses? The case you make that Rose was just fine with U1 doesn’t seem to hold that well in tournament results, where she only got top-results since the advent of U2. Of course it can be purely coincidental, but chances are, it isn’t.
And if you are implying she is just fine now, I agree. But why be so harsh then against people wanting her U2 to stay the same?

Nobody seriously asks for buffs. So why yell about it?

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nah, come on, we all know U2 startup was broken. It made U2 a wonderful tool both in defense and offense.

although it is just a loketest, it doesnt surprise me that CAPCOM finally nerf it…

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I don’t agree about the broken part, I think it was a needed buff that made her very balanced (gave her the reversal she lacked), and distinct (gives her a unique ultra that only does damage if you place it right).

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wrong post.

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I dont think it was broken as it was balanced out by its damage(thought i has high potential damage in the right situations) and its fragileness(i think that a word). Its good because it generally sets the wake up back to neutral and in some cases can put you at adavantage but it also depends on who your fighting, me for instance i stay fairly aggresive when other Roses U2.

I do think that Mk/Hk SSpirals could use damage buff and the start up on Mp/Hp SSparks can come down lil bit but she far from the worst character without this stuff(though at the very least can our cr.lp do 30 damage).

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I actually don’t mind MP/HP soul Spark startup now. It makes it a lot easier to bait shit out rather than late LP Sspark>FADC all the time.

now thinking about it though, I do want her Focus Attack range to be you know…bigger. I already don’t like that most of her attacks dealing with her scarf are misleading in active hitboxs and her FA is one of the moves that involve her scarf that goes half the range it should be.

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Really?

I saw Luffy winning tournaments in Vanilla with U1.

Another reason why Rose started winning a bit more is because Rose is simply a better characater in this one, just subtract the ultras for a second.

Well, obviously nerfing it will not be beneficial to our personal character, but it will be beneficial for the game.

Why is everyone complaining of how supposedly weak Rose is? She obviously is not weak. She has average damage output as far as Super is concerned. Basically you’re saying that she needs to do 250-300 damage per a bread n butter damage output combo? So in 4 of those, you win the round?

Don’t think so.

Tiny damage buffs such as 10 per a cr. jab, would be beneficial for Rose and wouldn’t break the game, so that’s fine. We use to have 40 per a cr. jab and we were still at an all time worst character.

But other than that, this is the game where Soul Throw is in it’s BEST form. This is one of the games where Rose has been in a best form.

And I do not agree with “only does damage when you place it right”. you will ALWAYS do damage with it, whether it actually be RAW damage, or whether it puts you in the advantageous position where two orbs are surrounding you or in a block stun position for your opponent.

There’s nothing negative about the ultra. There is no flaw. That’s the problem with it. EVery Ultra should have a flaw, every move should have a flaw.

Especially if you’re sure to get atleast 1 EVERY SINGLE ROUND.

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It has a flaw, it looks so strong that you think you are invincible. I see a lot more players now that perform a well-spaced slide or EX move right through it, giving you damage and zero gain. To benefit from the ultra (other than keeping pressure of for 10 seconds), you do need to take risks walking forward. It never is free.

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The ONLY thing I would want as a buff is OG push back on sparks. Otherwise, she’s still great as she is and doesn’t need to be touched. If anyone is seriously asking for stuff like a over head or stronger damage output, you probably need to step your game up a bit.

As for U2, it just really depends what the guy meant by invincibility since he obviously doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I’ll wait and see, but it will still have it’s uses in matches.

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Rose is strong in this game, but she won’t be as strong as her counterpart in SFA2. Her illusion special coupled with Soul Spiral = HUGE Chip Damage every single time. Although she has a really safe Ultra now(arguably one of the safest Ultras in the game), it does give some users the misconception that they can use it whenever they want. They may think “Oh, I’m going to use it right when a projectile is in front of me”, or “I’ll just use it and dash straight towards my opponent with no problem.” I’ll admit, sometimes I go for the second option a lot…but usually I end up losing her U2. Her U2 has no invincibility after the start-up phase, and every single Rose player should be aware of this. Many opponents think that it is literally impossible to hit her due to the positioning of the orbs. This is not true. If you keep using U2 on wake-up for instance, your opponent is going to find some way to punish you…no matter how difficult it may seem, or not.

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I agree. I would like to get an overhead and more dmg and maybe even a handgun or two but not at the price of having her be called overpowered. If that happens then you work your butt off for wins and at the end they all get chalked up to the character mechanics and not your effort.

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lol, you guys haven’t changed. I was expecting them to do something to Satellite, move is so ridiculous.

“One of the safest ultras in the game”? How about the safest move ever, in any game? For it to be any safer, Rose would have to be invincible after it’s already ended. lol.

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I still don’t understand why Rose’s EX spiral doesn’t do something like 120 damage; unless there are any other characters whose EX moves do the same damage as their normal one.