SSF4 AE: Revenge of the Orbs

The very first source on Rose changes is here: SUPER STREET FIGHTER IV Wiki - ?4???

If you don’t read Japanese very well, Google tries to translate it for you into:

That sounds like a nerf. But stating it like this it can’t actually be possible as U2 doesn’t even have any invincibility at all in SSF4. My early guess is that she gets some recovery, which would mean she can’t block anything meaty, and thus will lose or trade against meaty attacks upon activation.

Please post any updates you find

update: after discussion the guy reporting this change might not have known that Rose loses to meaties if she doesnt block due to orbs placement after activation.

You’re probably right about the meaty thing, which sucks. But judging from the nerfs all the other characters got - we have it pretty good. At least the nerf given to the other characters will help us out (nerfed Blanka Ball fallback is so good for us).

She won’t need nerfs to be better if everyone else is getting worse :rofl:

i guess it means she’s still got a wakeup option to get her out of sticky situations, but if she’s got recovery, doesn’t that mean she might lose the ability to combo for big damage out of it?

Is that even a big difference? After she activates the orbs, she could block, no? She could still very well get hit while the orbs are surrounding her, so I wouldn’t call that invincibility.

If they add recovery u won’t be able to move nor block for a few frames, which would be bad. But then, again, if they do that and they want to keep her combo-ability of ultra 2 (from FADC, juggle or jump-in), they will have to speed up the appearance of the orbs which is now stated at 5 frames after activation.

So, if they add recovery but speed up the orbs, then maybe you will trade more often. But still, to an active meatie you would lose unless orbs appear on frame 1. But now you do too if you dont actually block.

If they don’t speed up the orbs and just add recovery we’ll fail bigtime. Especially when using Ultra2 as safe wake-up. It will lose to any active meaty and to any invincible special (like EX SRK). Perhaps even immediate throws like Dhalsim’s U1.

Which is why I’m back to using U1.

U2 can go suck a dick.

They did give her U2 because she lacked reversals under pressure, so I wonder if they would actually fix the 1-frame issue on EX spiral :slight_smile:

A fully invincible EX soul spiral would be nice.

But fuck U2 for now.

It’s gone. Everyone start living without it because I’m sure it’s a final nerf. The 0 frame ultras were supposed to be gone when they patched like Guy and shit, and they never did. Now they had started to so everyone could just kiss their reversal goodbye and hope for the best.

Maybe they merely fixed the idea that Ultra2 start up already starts during activation (somebody here made an analysis of her Ultra stating that some frames were already ongoing during activation, in which she was naturally invincible as everyone is). If that is the case, nothing really changes at all. Combo-ability is still the same as total frames to combo into are the same, and you will stil be able to block after activation.
It would just be less confusing, and look slower but be the same.

If this sounds weird, it’s because Rose U2 is really weird to start with.

It seems like the Arcade Edition is coming with a lot more nerfs than buffs…

Acku. 1 + 4 invincibility frames on start up. If she loses that 1+4 invincibility frames on start up, she can be grabbed by any character, can be jabbed out (if she isn’t blocking). It’s gonna be horrendous so you can’t really use it safely on wake up anymore. (just on cross ups and even then). And since they can throw out the jab first, the best case scenario is that YOU tech the grab, which makes you lose the orbs. Also putting you in the same goddamn situation.

Either way, she either loses her invincibility or she gets recovery frames…

Time will tell.

Horrible and un-needed nerf… just like what a lot of the cast is getting.

But ehm, she doesn’t have any invincibility at all now, otherwise you wouldn’t get hurt by meaties would you? That’s where things get strange in the usual framedata. It’s as if during activation some frames pass and after activation the orbs are there immediately. Which would make it like a 1-frame Ultra like Zangiefs. But it feels like a 2-framee to be real.
We need to get some more research done :slight_smile: It currently is an Ultra that doesn’t fit other framedata theories AFAIK. And maybe they fixed upon that, just a guess.

It’s a 5-frame ultra. The reason we can block meaties with U2 as it is now is because the invincibility covers the entire duration of the startup (and recovery, since U2’s recovery is the startup). That’s what makes it weird and unlike any other move in the game.

So basically you are saying that it starts up 5 frames after activation, and that she is as invincible as anyone else during activation (animation) of the Ultra itself. What actually is a normal Ultra.
The only difference would be that it has 0 recovery then?

… looking for the post were somebody found out that orbs hit before the 5th frame after acitvation and concluded frames passed already during activation…

edit: framedata on SRK list recovery as 5 now too, which wouldn’t work if it was real recovery after activation. So recovery and startup both pass during activation in which she is invincible. That’s what makes the ultra look weird in the framedata.
That I think it feels more like a 2±framer instead of 1-framer (immediate hit like Gief) is probably due to the orb placement. Meaties that hit low will likely hit between the orbs, but the orbs are effectively already there.

Theory now is: Ultra2 activates immedately and recovers immediately. The 5-frames startup and recovery already pass by during activation in which she is invincible. The new change might affect start-up of the ultra, or actually really give her extra recovery after activation, while orbs are already there.

edit2: bah, I’m starting to think nothing changed at all and the guy reporting this ‘change’ didnt know about the fact that orbs have placement and a Rose player should always block first if there is a meaty present.

The properties of her ultra were summed up in the Soul Satellite thread, I remember making a pretty long post. Anyways, it’s just a regular ultra with 4 frames startup (during which Rose can’t do anything but is invincible) and 0 recovery. Nothing weird happens during activation, the 5 frames are calculated from when the freeze stops and the opponent is able to move.

Getting rid of the invincibility will make it as good as a reversal as her cr.HP. Actually much worse, since cr.HP is not announced by an ultra freeze. So it will become a purely offensive ultra, that you must activate when the opponent is knocked down or far from you.

But who cares, I’ll still use it. Just need to learn all those mixups that require you to throw the opponent through the orbs. Bad news is that we no longer have a decent reversal (and now Vega has one! What the fuck.).

Yeah, I can see why the wiki frame data is confusing. Actually, the ultra has 0 recovery. On the wiki, they list it as 5 frames, but they put “total duration” in parenthesis afterwards because they’re trying to say that startup and recovery are one-in-the-same.

edit: eventhub’s AE change list doesn’t necessarily say she lost all invincibility on Ultra 2, so we can’t really draw any conclusion from it. I’m hoping the people that were testing just didn’t understand how the ultra works, and that it’s actually just like it is now.

i actually never liked ultra 2 from the start, even though you can combo from it, you could always have done a combo into ultra 1, which does more damage. plus ultra one as an anti air does more dmg then ultra 2 and it couldn’t be stopped by a jumping round house.

Regardless, no way Capcom’s going to let U2 lie. It’s in their nature to nerf. Might as well forget it’s existence, and go back to the fun of tight U1 combo setups and proper guessing sigh.

1+4 is the start up of the ultra.

She is COMPLETELY invincible during the animation, and she can instantly block. The reason for this is that something like a jab will NEVER hit Rose if done before the ultra starts.

But something like Ryu’s sweep which last for more of a duration than 3 active frames, will cause her to either block or get hit depending on what is happening.

Get it?

If she loses her invincibility, she will, and I mean she WILL get hit out of it. .-.

EDIT: To be more clear, she has FIVE invincibility frames when she activates ultra. A regular Balrog jab only has 3 active frames, therefore, Rose will not get hit.

What we don’t notice on her animation is that it might cause a time freeze, but the characters are actually STILL doing their little movement as the ultra doesn’t come out until AFTER the time freeze.

Therefore, there are reasons why we can be Tornado’d or Oicho’d out of it, because they have more than 5 active frames on their animation.

If Rose loses those 5 invincible frames, she will be hit out of EVERYTHING because she will either be thrown out of it, and it takes time to jump, do an EX Spiral, or something of the sort.

Get it?