I understand that removing the invincibility off of her Orbs wasn’t the “smartest” idea from a balancing standpoint. But even so, so what?
Seriously, there really is more to Rose than U2. Granted, the invincibility on U2 did make her an overall stronger [more balanced] character but she’s still has tools to compete. And U2 can still be utilized similarly to the way it has been used outside being used as a reversal. It still combos. The mix ups are all there. It’s still going to be a bitch do deal with after activation (especially in the corner).
And even if Rose has a relatively weak wake up game, she’s still better off in that department than many other characters that are really lacking in that area (e.g. Vega, Cody, etc.) She’s still a solid character. Not as strong, sure, but solid nonetheless. Just accept her design (i.e. strengths and weaknesses) and learn to adjust your game plan.
And real talk, compared to nerfs some other characters are getting, Rose’s nerf isn’t really all that bad at all.
Are you seriously comparing Rose’s wake up game to that of Makoto’s? Makoto has a weaker wake up game with EX Oroshi than Rose with EX Spiral (a slower attack with 5 frame vulnerability until the attack comes out as opposed to 1). And there are characters much worse off than Rose. Compare Vega’s wake up game to that of Rose. How about Sim? Cody? Gen?
Rose might get thrown (or in some instances get hit) out of EX SS but at least it’s still an option and has it’s place in certain situations (e.g. against meaties). It’s not a brain dead shoryu reversal but a reversal nonetheless. She’s not “free” on wake up. Vega? He’s free. Makoto? Pretty much near free.
Being weak =/= free. With that said, Rose is weak on wake up.
Not every character’s preferable meaty is jab/short. If a meaty jab/short is beating your reversal EX SS on wake up then back dash would be the best answer in said situation (outside corner of course).
Okay??? So block??? OS don’t come out. What are you doing when you don’t have meter??? Waiting for 50% revenge meter so you can Ultra 2 one wake up??? What about the rest???
Both characters are pretty free on wake up, but even though they can both still block but Vega has the fear of losing a round because the other guy scored a knock down. No matter how much of a lead Vega has.
This is considering if Rose doesn’t have U2, which I’ve been playing without for the last 3 months.
I like seeing my fellow Vega players on this board, but come on guys this shouldn’t be a pissing contest.
I wonder if that’s true, because Option selecting does require you to input fast , and I’m unsure whether or not it’s possile (or doable) to stop on reaction of a reversal happening. I bet you’d be doing the second jab (or sweep while she is reversaling you)
I’m not used to baiting reversals however and hitconfirming meaties, so I may be wrong. I’m asking if anyone who does thinks baiting reversals while doing OS is possible
I’m sure Rose veterans will be fine. I’m trying to learn Rose myself lately. I think she has pretty good pressure and defense overall. Wake up is okay but not as bad as Dee Jay, whom I had played with the entirety of last month. Very frustrating experience.
When looking at deejay hitbox data I discovered that some of his upkick version were throw invularable, even without EX. Is that so? Is it usable? I kind of like playing deejay, but apart from EX upkicks he has indeed no reversals. Didnt seem as bad as Roses EX spiral though, very damaging.
I don’t think anybody would successfully throw Dee Jay out of the startup of the upkicks since it’s like a 4f startup. The timing is too tight. It’s safe jumpable to punish but not that easily against a good player. My main annoyance with them is his grounded EX-moves getting stuffed super easily which limits their use. On wake up, it’s just block or Up kicks, that’s pretty much it. Or a lucky Ultra 2 auto-correct which is random and punishes cross ups.
I think Rose will be fine. Obviously if you’re stuck on using just Ultra 2 a lot on wake up to turn some tables then you’ll have to adjust. I didn’t believe that should’ve been the only solution to come back. It’s still just a matter of when to activate it to use to your advantage and move forward. The only annoying part is that projectile hit boxes (Rufus Tornado, Bison EX-Crusher) can nullify it.
It’s clear that all of us have had varying opinions of Rose’s U2 nerf, and how it will impact her match-ups. The reality is, it’s coming, and we just have to adapt and adjust, if we plan to continue using her. If it means we have to block more on wake-up, so be it. I think that will help us improve our defense, and react to opponent pressure better.
The only people that it’s really going to affect are people constantly relying on U2 as a wakeup reversal. Otherwise you’re just playing Vanilla Rose with buffed reflect hitbox, nerfed Piede/sweep, and a few other small buff/nerfs from Super.
Rose’s wake up EX SS should catch meaty jabs/shorts OS sweeps due to the 11f invincibility it provides until the move comes out (f13). The meaty short/jab will miss due to the invulnerability frames and the Spiral will catch the sweep/normal that follows. And if, in said situation, your opponent ends up blocking, you still have the option to FADC to safety given three EX bars. Back dash is best reserved as an option when your opponent continues to chain the meaty jab/short with another. This makes EX SS not a viable option. But ultimately, the best option on wake up is always block.
My point being, meaty short OS sweeps don’t rape Rose on wake up.
AND, at least Rose has all the necessary [solid] tools to keep herself from being knocked down in the first place (outside a few match ups). So her poor wake up game, IMO doesn’t hurt her much at all as a character. Remember, she’s not losing U2; just the invincibility.
