for those of you who have played AE, when you see a Yun abusing palm on the other side of the screen to build meter, how do you guys like to beat it?
i know it’s a projectile so you can use standard anti projectile moves to beat it. but i find when i’m in mk tatsu range this is also ideal range for their dive kicks to happen. maybe EX run-> slide? what about meterless full screen punishes? perhaps my timing was off, but un-exed run-> slide did not seem like a very good way to beat it, because if you timed it wrong the palm REALLY hurts. i talked to the guy and he suggested EX hozanto to punish it after he does the palm, but EX hozanto’s range really isn’t that long and as a result you are very close to the dangerous dive kick zone.
if you jump in, he can recover before you land the jump and DP you, unless you psychic-ed the palm. this is why they sometimes do fake palms, to bait you into jumping, so… maybe mp hozanto? i dont know.
I’ve been thinking about this match up a lot, so wall of text coming…
Like Blooddrunk says, from full screen Ex Run-Slide and Ex Run-Overhead are both decent options. The third option I’ve been going for is to just builld my own meter by whiffing Jab Flip Elbows.
But I think the real problem here, and you’re obviously aware of that from your post, is not the palm but the divekick.
The thing that really needs to be figured out is how best to play the Guy/Yun footsie game. In SF4, Divekicks are one of the best footsie tools in the game, because they beat ground pokes AND start pressure strings on block. Yun’s Divekick is monstrously good because it can cover 3 different angles, is fast (faster than Yang’s and Rufuses), and can lead to a big damage combo that knocks down and sets up another dive (It’s weaknesses are that it has comparatively lower priority and lower lower hit/block stun that most other dive kicks, but imo it’s strengths more than make up for its weaknesses). The worst part about Yun’s dive kick is that the far range dive kick has so such good horizontal range that you end up being too scared to even walk into Guy’s footsie range (which is why the most obvious punish to whiffed palms, cr.HK slide, doesn’t feel like a viable option… you take a big risk by even walking into the zone where it’s viable). In effect, Yun’s dive kicks are one of the most powerful space control tools in the game (SSF4:AE- Dive Kicks and Rekkas are the new Tiger Shot).
When I first played this match up, I was playing it by doing lots of walking stand fierces, since they beat dive kicks very premptively. However, the problem is that they don’t feel threatening enough and a poorly spaced stand fierce can be punished by Yun with cr.MK> Lunge Punch/Shoulder Check.
After re-watching Nox2’s games against Daigo (and I’m quite inspired because he shows some damned good footsie skills there… just count the number of far stand MPs that Daigo is forced to block), I’m thinking now that the best way to play the footsie game is this way:
Walk into Divekick range and dance back and forth. The MOMENT Yun Jumps, hit d.MP or stand fierce. This should take out Divekicks handily. When you’re in the right distance, walk in and out of the max range of far s.MK and use far s.MK and overhead to poke/pressure (overhead’s max range is still godly). If you’re feeling gutsy, go for the offense with far s.MP> Run-Stop for the throw/cr.LK pressure.
(It gets doubly dangerous once Yun has meter, cause then you also have to watch out for Ex Lunge punch which knocks down on hit and is even or +1 on block. The only way to counter the move is to press cr.MK, but it’s hard to react to the Ex Lunge Puch and it’s risky to hit cr.MK randomly cause cr.MK is divekick food… So I’m still not sure how to deal with the combined threat of divekicks and Ex Lunge punch.)
The difficulty here is to be on point with the cr.MP and stand fierce anti-airs, as well as to fight the temptation to try to use cr.HK slide to get the easy knockdown. But if you can do all that, I think the threat from divekicks is minimised, while you’re able to play within the footsie range. Once you’re able to camp there, it’s easy to use cr.HK slide to punish any whiffed palms.
Can Anyone check if Houzanto has full body projectile invinc now?? In Console it wouldnt go past Sagats Low Tigershot … may be in AE??
And yes Bushin flip elbow should atleast do some chip damage for wat its worth … That move is too vulnerable…
I think if it was an overhead people would just learn to punish it properly…doubt it would make guy too broken he cant whiff it like Akuma too so DP is a universal asnwer…perhaps a HP adjustment to compensate? and nerfing the throw hitbox? like in A2
O.o? Rly?..Din look faster from the vids… that move was already 7f …Anyway Glad its buffed … but i was hoping they would fix the active frames at the end of the slide though instead of this…
And i have noticed his overhead hits only once sometimes… can you combo of it ? If it hits only once…kinda like ryus overhead…
Akumas tools from flip are different than Guys. You can jump out of that mix up if Akuma starts doing it in block strings, cause his flips are not as close to the ground as Guys. You cannot jump away from Guy in a TC block string then cancel FP into Bushin flip, he can Bushin flip you if you hold up.
Comparing Bushin flip/elbow drop to be an overhead to Ryu’s DP being anti-air is not a fair comparison. Ryu’s anti air DP is a defensive move and it’s not a mixup. Guy’s Bushin flip is a mixup and is an offensive move.
but mixup??.. If elbow could crossup or something i would agree… I mean wats mixup about it when crouch blocking beats both options? … I guess the EX flip on wakeup is somewhat a mixup but otherwise not really…
Anyway not really complaining about it… Its a pretty decent move but I wish it didnt lose to lows attacks so badly…Thats my only gripe with it.
well if Guy could grab crouchers… that move would be insanely broken even if it did shit damage, It would just open up all types of pressure for Guy for him to be easy mode…
I wish elbow crossed up. thats what made it good in alpha :\
I should have said “part” of a mixup because you have several options after TC Fierce…you can cancel the fierce into Bushin Flip, or…run-stop…or Run-RH overhead…or Run-MK slide FADC cancel if you have meter…or LP hozanto for block string…or nothing…
I sure wish that Run-RH overhead was safer on block…:sad:
Okay I might have thought of something useful. I was in training mode with guy vs guy practicing some combos and I did st.hk, st.hp, st.mpxxslide/ex hozz for good damage and a lot of stun. Now I believe this combo doesn’t work on most characters but in AE st.hk is much more consistent and st.mp has a bigger hitbox so maybe this combo is possible on everyone now. I’d like for arcade players to try this out cause if it works then there’s no point in punishing with st.hk, bc anymore.
Yeah Akuma’s demonflip tools are different; they’re flat out better. His throw grabs crouchers and leads to more vortex options, he has an overhead armor breaker, can go into a low attack…
You don’t need to jump away from Guy when he cancel into bushin flip, you can just dash under him or just use a low attack that will beat any followup, regardless of how he times it. Also, some characters actually can jump and meet him in the air although there’s not reason to do so.
There is absolutely no comparison between the two and it’s ridiculous to say otherwise.
Guy’s bushin elbow sure as hell would not be broken as an overhead since there are already so many ways to avoid it completely on reaction.
ok so i’ll apologize for that if that makes it better but the GENERAL idea i’m getting at is that all of ryu’s/akuma’s tools are in place. flip elbow is crap period. the grab is good but again, even if it IS a mixup tool the thing i’m saying here is that your ways of opening up the opponent are harder because of the flip not being overhead. his current overhead moves are meh. his high low game isnt anything to really fear EVEN still. flip isnt abusable this much is true even for the old games, but for something thats so easy to react to and worst of all low profile completely…the dude needs that shit lol. at least he can punish crouchers, even if he got a combo on counter hit that’d help him just THAT much. again its just trash that YUN AND YANG have all their moves and then some. i mean last i checked in 3s yun nor yang’s dp kicks were truly legit anti air or used for anti air purposes. granted there’s parry i will admit but the general idea is what i’m getting at here. for reiteration sake, its having the move set complete with all the old properties intact with some new stuff.
granted…if there is some kinda update and they dont give that to him…well why not opt out for a cancelable cr.mk. that’d be great right?
edit: his cr.hk is the same as console speed wise, its the active frames i shoulda said. sorry for the mixup!~
Run overhead hits twice every single time.
HK tatsu reliable anti air (shoryu-like)
Bushin flip catches crouchers
cr.lp x2 (or cr.lp cr.lk mix) FF combo lands on crouchers
Elbow is overhead
Elbow can crossup
Walking speed akuma-like or more
U1 works as anti-air
Almost forgot: Being hit by super = lands full
Run + two kicks = This kick http://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/guy-combo2.gif
Breaks armor, send you flying like hozanto does, FADC into ultra 1, super, tatsus, run hk, bushin flip grab
Any Combo or move with launcher, FADC, bushing flip grab lands, off the wall
Non-strict crossup on-the-nose distance.
HP Hozanto faster, able to actually punish hadokens on reaction
TC FADC cr.lp FF lands
run slide, cancel into super, hits
super 1ºhit, hits crouchers
close st.roundhouse hits entire cast crouching
lp and lk 3f.
Alternate costume: Strider Hiryu. Alternate2: Ginzu the ninja (Sho)
Revamped costume 1 and standing pose, if you do nothing, he fall asleep (Alpha) http://i52.tinypic.com/r2ubyd.jpg
Optional:
Removing commentator voice
Bring back old commentator voice
Stage select always random (skip)
Bring back "Indestructible"
Remove Balrog
Optional startup meters full
Guard meter and guard crush
damn, i hate fighting the twins. i especially hate fighting new characters because guy has no universal punish (well he does, but you want to go for bunshin chain when you can to maximize punish damage, but it whiffs often), and so sometimes i panic and i use a weak punish, like that c.mk vs the mantis slashes lol. iono if that’s what happened, but i know from personal experience i’ve screwed up a few punishes against the twins because i dunno what i’m doing
