SRK Mafia X -- Dangan Ronpa: Fire At Will -- END -- Civilians Win

[RadicalFuzz]

But I should hope Fuzz doesn’t know more about the roles than I do. He was that tentacruel guy afterall.

I have never watched/played the anime/game or even heard of it before this game.

How about if Genocider Syo and the medic both target the same person during the night phase? Of course, we’ll have to all agree on someone (preferably someone suspicious in case it goes wrong). If they cooperate, we can confirm whether or not we actually have a medic.

As others have pointed out, there are problems with this.
1 - Medic might be a dum-dum and not protect who we told Syo to kill
2 - Syo might be a dum-dum and not kill who we told her to
3 - Our backup Medic might try to figure out if she’s the real Medic and not protect Syo’s target to see if we had the original Medic

Essentially we’d be counting on 3 players to all target the same person. That’s unlikely at best. No-Kill shouldn’t be a problem though. Way I see it, if Mafia uses the No-Kill on a target, that player doesn’t actually gain any protection, meaning it would only appear as though they had been saved. Without protection, Syo’s kill would go through and actually kill them. Does this make sense? (@Augustus :tup:)In fact, if the Mafia recruited that one role (civ/mafia - Follow player and find out who they targeted with actions) then this would help them locate the Medic(s) and Syo.

@pietastic here’s the basic concept not including other roles

Medic: "Hey Oogami, protect me and someone else"
Oogami: "K"
Medic protects Oogami
Mafia tries to kill Medic
Oogami takes the bullet
Medic’s protection saves Oogami
Rinse & Repeat

Of course, when you add in other roles this becomes much more complicated. If the Mafia have the enforcer role then they can prevent this “blanket” effect and kill someone if they find any of the parties involved. In fact, looking back on it, the Enforcer’d be a good recruit, even if it’s only a 3-time use.

[AlphaCommando]

@GodotsRevenge GifCountdown’s back up.

Why does this even matter? Sure, mafia no kills, but Syo’s still killing. Unless their No Kill for whatever dumb reason nullifies Syo’s kill. Clarification, Godots?

No Kill generally nullifies all kills that night and takes priority over the Vigi kill. I can’t say for sure, because ‘Corrupt Leader’ wasn’t included in the Night Phase Action Order list.

[RadicalFuzz]

If we don’t have any medics, then Oogami dying isn’t that bad, as it potentially reveals a mafia as well.

Actually this isn’t a bad idea. There’d be no reason for Mafia to recruit Asahina, all she’d do as Mafia would be immune from Syo. If Oogami roleclaims today and gets killed by Syo at night, Asahina would learn the Valedictorian’s name. She could then roleclaim and we could lynch the Val. The only problem would be Mafia Asahina RCing and offering up the Val to get in good with us.

[pietastic]

I’m still worried about Oogami being mafia. Yes, it’s unlikely. But what if the plan unfolds and the medic(s) end up protecting a mafia for multiple days? We’re wasting one or more of the medics’ power doing something useless, right?

Agreed that if Oogami dies, we likely have the Valedictorian dead to rights. But again, we’re making assumptions, which makes me nervous. All told, this is a game of probability, I suppose.

[Hecatom]

All those different ways “No-Kill, protected by Medic” aren’t enough reasons why it probably won’t work? After the fact that we might not even have 1 medic?

Vigi targets you (or someone else)
We have no medic
You die|They die

In the end, we learn we don’t have a medic. One civ dies, Mafia is closer to winning.

Dear God. Again, how is this any worse than Syo killing a random civilian based on their own judgment? You know it’s going to happen. At least this would have some thought and a plan behind it.

If you are The diplomatic immunity girl,
No Kill, "protected by Medic"
She doesn’t die to Vigi

We learn nothing. If we had 1 or 2 medics, they all got tied up on one player too.

And the chances of actually picking that role out of 23 people?..

they have the hall monitor guy who can say “No-Kill, protected by the Medic”

I was under the assumption that the ability only affects the write-up and is not an actual protection. Therefore, if Syo and the mafia medic target the same person, Syo still gets his kill. @GodotsRevenge : Clarification.

Your plan calls for someone to be killed to learn something we can just learn anyway.

You know that I only made my suggestion so we can abuse Pimp Willy’s idea, right? The sooner we learn we have a medic, the better. Instead you’d rather wait later into the game after they’re dead or they get lucky and protect correctly (this doesn’t happen often). But whatever. Shit all over my suggestion if you like. I was only trying to help out.

I am firmly believer that we should ponderate every scenario before jumping at the 1st option, with your plan there are many flaws that can put us on disadvantage, the benefits that the mafia gets by recruiting the medic are quite high that make it the more probable option that happened, i also thing that we should work under the assumption that the mafia also recruited the Diplomatic since it allows them to know the identity of our Vigi.

I think that if those 2 roles were recruited we are on a considerable dissadvantage. We should be looking of ways to prevent losing our vigi tonight and assure that he should be protected imo.

[Hecatom]

OK, I’m still trying to get my head around PW’s plan, and I think others are too, despite his saying that people who don’t get it are slow. If so, I’m definitely slow, so let me try to spell it out:

At this point, I’m convinced that if we do indeed have Oogami and one of the medics, we can effectively protect 3 people per night (Oogami, the medic, and another person). Oogami can “cover” the medic and the other person, and the medic can cover Oogami. This process has been confirmed by the GM.

If we have both medics (which I agree is unlikely), we have the opportunity to “stack” protections and get a wider shield. But I’m not going to cover the both-medic situation now because I do think it’s unlikely (Mafia boss likely scooped up at least one medic), and just thinking about us having one medic is hard enough.

The one-medic plan only works if we’re sure Oogami and one of the medics are indeed civ. I’m not comfortable assuming Oogami is civ. The Mafia boss might have selected him for general yomi, or because he saw this coming. The main way we can find out if Oogami is civ for sure is for Oogami to RC, nobody else RC’s Oogami, and his “cover” power is used and actually reflected in the writeup. There are other ways, I suppose, but that’s getting into a rat’s nest, right? If we end up with multiple Oogami RCs, we can’t be sure about who’s responsible for the save. We can investigate, and the Heir gets role info, but things are getting awfully complicated at this point, especially since Mafia could foil investigations.

In addition to that, we also have to confirm that we have at least one of the medics. If we tell the medics to protect a person, and also have Syo go after them, and then one of the medics RCs, we can indeed basically confirm that we have a medic. But do we ask both medics to RC? Hopefully we’d only get one RC, but if we didn’t, that would cause problems, as Azure mentioned. We could have two civ medics actually RC, or one or two mafia (most likely one) of any role (including a mafia medic!)

Based on that, I’m currently skeptical about following this plan. The “decision tree” is just too gigantic, and with all of the powers in play, there’s likely to be something we haven’t thought of that might allow mafia to screw it all up. Right? I admit that with all of the roles, I don’t claim to have it all 100% straight in my head. So, please critique this.

You’re overcomplicating it

Oogami comes out and says who they are. Nobody else role claims.

Medic protects Oogami. both medics, since they don’t know eachother identity. I assume hall monitor was turned and the Nurse wasn’t, but there’s still the chance they both were.

That’s it.

Oogami gets to protect 2 people a night, medic protects oogami, that means there’s basically 3 people a night saved (Oogami plus his two picks).

Medic doesn’t have to role claim. it’d be great if Medic was known, because oogami could protect the two of them plus a third, but it doesn’t matter. This works until the medic is killed.

If we don’t have any medics, then Oogami dying isn’t that bad, as it potentially reveals a mafia as well.

so what’s to lose?

Oogami, I hope you role claim before the end of the day, and medics, I hope you’re on board if you’re on our side.

Your plan sounds good but i feel that we don’t have our medic, the benefits on mindgames that the mafia gets by recruiting him are too much to let them pass.

[BTierBison]

I don’t really have much to say about the other roles. What is most important is knowing you own role well.

Why? We as civs need to make intelligent choices about whom to lynch. Understanding the dynamics among all the roles is central to that decision.

I agree. But knowing you own role is still most important.

I mean, yeah… you should not screw up the use of your own power.

@BTierBison: are you for or against the use of the medic “spreading” plan that PW is advocating for?

What is this plan about? I did not read the whole thread, so I would not know.

[Azure]

If Oogami role-claims and gets lynched, Pimp is out to pasture.

Which means not Valedictorian, either way, imo.

But if he is mafia, he no doubt helped to hatch the ugly chick.

THAT SAID… if he is willing to offer himself up as a sacrifice this early on, then a couple of things are abundantly clear.

Firstly, that there is a spare O.G. in the Mafia, to help keep shit together after Pimp inevitably dies from Oogami’s death.

Secondly, that there is an EXCEEDLY strong chance that Mafia has subverted the stronger Civ roles.

These are my thoughts, thus far.

Personally, I think he is a 50/50 mix up, right now, but I lean towards his innocence.

[Azure]

I don’t really have much to say about the other roles. What is most important is knowing you own role well.

Why? We as civs need to make intelligent choices about whom to lynch. Understanding the dynamics among all the roles is central to that decision.

I agree. But knowing you own role is still most important.

I mean, yeah… you should not screw up the use of your own power.

@BTierBison: are you for or against the use of the medic “spreading” plan that PW is advocating for?

What is this plan about? I did not read the whole thread, so I would not know.

Read the whole thread.

Not reading the whole thread is tantamount to being a wallflower.

#DeathToAllWallflowers

[RadicalFuzz]

If Oogami role-claims and gets lynched, Pimp is out to pasture.

Which means not Valedictorian, either way, imo.

But if he is mafia, he no doubt helped to hatch the ugly chick.

THAT SAID… if he is willing to offer himself up as a sacrifice this early on, then a couple of things are abundantly clear.

Firstly, that there is a spare O.G. in the Mafia, to help keep shit together after Pimp inevitably dies from Oogami’s death.

Can you clarify this for me? You’re saying that either way, Pimp doesn’t appear to be Valedictorian. But then you say that he’ll inevitably die because of Oogami’s death, who gives Aoi the name of the Val when Oogami dies. Do you mean if Oogami gets lynched then Pimp’s death is inevitable?

[BTierBison]

I’m trying to read it all. I’m actually doing a bunch of things at once, so my focus is not totally here, but much of it is.

[Azure]

If Oogami role-claims and gets lynched, Pimp is out to pasture.

Which means not Valedictorian, either way, imo.

But if he is mafia, he no doubt helped to hatch the ugly chick.

THAT SAID… if he is willing to offer himself up as a sacrifice this early on, then a couple of things are abundantly clear.

Firstly, that there is a spare O.G. in the Mafia, to help keep shit together after Pimp inevitably dies from Oogami’s death.

Can you clarify this for me? You’re saying that either way, Pimp doesn’t appear to be Valedictorian. But then you say that he’ll inevitably die because of Oogami’s death, who gives Aoi the name of the Val when Oogami dies. Do you mean if Oogami gets lynched then Pimp’s death is inevitable?

The latter.

Yeah.

If Oogami gets lynched, then Pimp is suspect #1.

I do not believe the Mafia would put forth the Val for a sacrifice, much less a diabolical bastard like pimp.

Ergo, I think if he IS mafia, then there is another O.G. puppetmaster.

Thoughts?

[Hecatom]

I knew that allowing BTierBison was a low tier idea, smh.

[Hecatom]

allowing him in the game

[RadicalFuzz]

If Oogami role-claims and gets lynched, Pimp is out to pasture.

Which means not Valedictorian, either way, imo.

But if he is mafia, he no doubt helped to hatch the ugly chick.

THAT SAID… if he is willing to offer himself up as a sacrifice this early on, then a couple of things are abundantly clear.

Firstly, that there is a spare O.G. in the Mafia, to help keep shit together after Pimp inevitably dies from Oogami’s death.

Can you clarify this for me? You’re saying that either way, Pimp doesn’t appear to be Valedictorian. But then you say that he’ll inevitably die because of Oogami’s death, who gives Aoi the name of the Val when Oogami dies. Do you mean if Oogami gets lynched then Pimp’s death is inevitable?

The latter.

Yeah.

If Oogami gets lynched, then Pimp is suspect #1.

I do not believe the Mafia would put forth the Val for a sacrifice, much less a diabolical bastard like pimp.

Ergo, I think if he IS mafia, then there is another O.G. puppetmaster.

Thoughts?

What reasoning would we have for lynching Oogami, getting the name to the Swimmer? We can have Syo take care of that if need be, that leaves us with more topics to discuss rather than just the “Lynch Oogami->Get name” plan.

Depending on the Valedictorian’s value as a player and role then they might sacrifice him. I agree with you that if PW is Mafia then there’s likely another experienced player on the Mafia. Earlier Pimp volunteered to be targeted for death and protection by Syo. I don’t see him taking that risk unless there’s someone else to lead the Mafia once he’s gone, or he has some ability that would help him. Like being immune from Syo kills or being able to coach after death. Actually, that’d be ideal for Mafia. Get the player who can’t be killed by Syo to be targeted by Syo for death. When the “Medic save” pops up, we’ll think we still have a Medic, which may not be the case.

[GodotsRevenge]

God damn it BTierBison.

[Augustus]

lol

[Azure]

If Oogami role-claims and gets lynched, Pimp is out to pasture.

Which means not Valedictorian, either way, imo.

But if he is mafia, he no doubt helped to hatch the ugly chick.

THAT SAID… if he is willing to offer himself up as a sacrifice this early on, then a couple of things are abundantly clear.

Firstly, that there is a spare O.G. in the Mafia, to help keep shit together after Pimp inevitably dies from Oogami’s death.

Can you clarify this for me? You’re saying that either way, Pimp doesn’t appear to be Valedictorian. But then you say that he’ll inevitably die because of Oogami’s death, who gives Aoi the name of the Val when Oogami dies. Do you mean if Oogami gets lynched then Pimp’s death is inevitable?

The latter.

Yeah.

If Oogami gets lynched, then Pimp is suspect #1.

I do not believe the Mafia would put forth the Val for a sacrifice, much less a diabolical bastard like pimp.

Ergo, I think if he IS mafia, then there is another O.G. puppetmaster.

Thoughts?

What reasoning would we have for lynching Oogami, getting the name to the Swimmer? We can have Syo take care of that if need be, that leaves us with more topics to discuss rather than just the “Lynch Oogami->Get name” plan.

Depending on the Valedictorian’s value as a player and role then they might sacrifice him. I agree with you that if PW is Mafia then there’s likely another experienced player on the Mafia. Earlier Pimp volunteered to be targeted for death and protection by Syo. I don’t see him taking that risk unless there’s someone else to lead the Mafia once he’s gone, or he has some ability that would help him. Like being immune from Syo kills or being able to coach after death. Actually, that’d be ideal for Mafia. Get the player who can’t be killed by Syo to be targeted by Syo for death. When the “Medic save” pops up, we’ll think we still have a Medic, which may not be the case.

Bad wording on my part. If Oogami gets murdered, then lynch Pimp.

Apologies for that.

As for your second idea…

That is really, really dirty pool.

But we have a UC too, right?

If the UC checks Pimp out, then we’d at least know that Pimp is at best Role-less Civ, at worst Mafia, correct?

[RadicalFuzz]

If Oogami role-claims and gets lynched, Pimp is out to pasture.

Which means not Valedictorian, either way, imo.

But if he is mafia, he no doubt helped to hatch the ugly chick.

THAT SAID… if he is willing to offer himself up as a sacrifice this early on, then a couple of things are abundantly clear.

Firstly, that there is a spare O.G. in the Mafia, to help keep shit together after Pimp inevitably dies from Oogami’s death.

Can you clarify this for me? You’re saying that either way, Pimp doesn’t appear to be Valedictorian. But then you say that he’ll inevitably die because of Oogami’s death, who gives Aoi the name of the Val when Oogami dies. Do you mean if Oogami gets lynched then Pimp’s death is inevitable?

The latter.

Yeah.

If Oogami gets lynched, then Pimp is suspect #1.

I do not believe the Mafia would put forth the Val for a sacrifice, much less a diabolical bastard like pimp.

Ergo, I think if he IS mafia, then there is another O.G. puppetmaster.

Thoughts?

What reasoning would we have for lynching Oogami, getting the name to the Swimmer? We can have Syo take care of that if need be, that leaves us with more topics to discuss rather than just the “Lynch Oogami->Get name” plan.

Depending on the Valedictorian’s value as a player and role then they might sacrifice him. I agree with you that if PW is Mafia then there’s likely another experienced player on the Mafia. Earlier Pimp volunteered to be targeted for death and protection by Syo. I don’t see him taking that risk unless there’s someone else to lead the Mafia once he’s gone, or he has some ability that would help him. Like being immune from Syo kills or being able to coach after death. Actually, that’d be ideal for Mafia. Get the player who can’t be killed by Syo to be targeted by Syo for death. When the “Medic save” pops up, we’ll think we still have a Medic, which may not be the case.

Bad wording on my part. If Oogami gets murdered, then lynch Pimp.

Apologies for that.

As for your second idea…

That is really, really dirty pool.

But we have a UC too, right?

If the UC checks Pimp out, then we’d at least know that Pimp is at best Role-less Civ, at worst Mafia, correct?

The best part is Syo’s kill takes place after the Mafia’s, so if Oogami successfully protects that’ll go through and she’ll protect the original target. And then we have 1 confirmed civilian, the name of the Valedictorian, and only 1 civilian died for it. If Oogami doesn’t protect correctly, then we have the name of the Val for 2 dead civilians. Not a bad trade, IMO. The main downside is if the Swimmer is Mafia and they sacrifice the Valedictorian then we may end up trusting that person. Therefore, the Swimmer shouldn’t be considered “Confirmed” by any means with this plan.

And yes, we have a UC. However the Gambler will come up Innocent from investigations if Mafia, and there could be a Forger on the Mafia’s side so the results aren’t guaranteed.

[RadicalFuzz]

Another outcome is, the Swimmer is Mafia and doesn’t want to sacrifice the Valedictorian, so she doesn’t step forward. That’s the worst case scenario that I can see. And even with that, we gain more information. The Swimmer as Mafia is immune to kills from Syo (“protected by Medic”) so we then know that one of the Mafia can’t be killed by Syo.