I feel the opposite, high mafia numbers means they can no kill to earn trust easier, because they’re not constantly 1-2 deaths from losing
Since it seems that we’re eager to know if we actually have a medic, I propose this…
How about if Genocider Syo and the medic both target the same person during the night phase? Of course, we’ll have to all agree on someone (preferably someone suspicious in case it goes wrong). If they cooperate, we can confirm whether or not we actually have a medic.
Just got here, MP. I was reading the thread as it was already 3 pages.
I’ll organize my thoughts together in the meanwhile.
It’s 1 A.M. here, yet I’ll probably stay for another hour or so.
Augustus, I think you should volunteer since you came up with the idea.
It’s not a bad idea, and I don’t mind volunteering, like I said I have no issues dying to help the greater good in case something goes wrong
You bastard. I knew someone was going to say that.
No way, man.
The problem with this idea is that we are risking to lose a potential important role of our side if we don’t have our medic and choose a civilian.
You are aware that this puts you in a bad light don’t you?
I don’t see how it’s any worse than Syo going around doing his own thing and killing incorrectly.
All it does is make me look selfish. How am I supposed to get points if it backfires and I die early? I want all the points.
Its possible we have no medic and you just controlled the Vigi, if he wanted to listen to you.
As well, deception in this one:
http://i.imgur.com/vjLfA9t.png
And Mafia No-Kill we just talked about that comes up as a Medic protect.
Too many possibilities (for false positives). We can wait out learning if we have a medic without getting ourselves killed and tying up the Vigi.
What? Civilians get Syo; Mafia does not. And if they know who he is, then this is his opportunity to make himself useful before the inevitable death.
Why does this even matter? Sure, mafia no kills, but Syo’s still killing. Unless their No Kill for whatever dumb reason nullifies Syo’s kill. Clarification, Godots?
I really don’t understand why you guys think this is a bad idea.
All those different ways “No-Kill, protected by Medic” aren’t enough reasons why it probably won’t work? After the fact that we might not even have 1 medic?
If you are confident in your plan, you also have to be confident we have a medic. Its your plan, think it all the way through. Think of how Mafia can use your plan. They can manipulate the results and know If we have no medic, that means they have him : they have the hall monitor guy who can say “No-Kill, protected by the Medic”
What does that mean? They took (at least) one medic. They gave us the false idea that we have a medic by doing that. We weren’t in control of the plan at all.
I agree on things may need to be clarified.
Your plan calls for someone to be killed to learn something we can just learn anyway. And we won’t learn what you want if things don’t go exactly right. Shit, what if the guy you wanted protected by Medic and Targeted by Vigi is a Mafia instead? Super wasteful.
Its not night phase, pick this up later as we get closer to that at least, making your case better before we gotta talk about it again.
I don’t really have much to say about the other roles. What is most important is knowing you own role well.
Why? We as civs need to make intelligent choices about whom to lynch. Understanding the dynamics among all the roles is central to that decision.
Because he is dropping role yomi on us, duh.
OK, I’m still trying to get my head around PW’s plan, and I think others are too, despite his saying that people who don’t get it are slow. If so, I’m definitely slow, so let me try to spell it out:
At this point, I’m convinced that if we do indeed have Oogami and one of the medics, we can effectively protect 3 people per night (Oogami, the medic, and another person). Oogami can “cover” the medic and the other person, and the medic can cover Oogami. This process has been confirmed by the GM.
If we have both medics (which I agree is unlikely), we have the opportunity to “stack” protections and get a wider shield. But I’m not going to cover the both-medic situation now because I do think it’s unlikely (Mafia boss likely scooped up at least one medic), and just thinking about us having one medic is hard enough.
The one-medic plan only works if we’re sure Oogami and one of the medics are indeed civ. I’m not comfortable assuming Oogami is civ. The Mafia boss might have selected him for general yomi, or because he saw this coming. The main way we can find out if Oogami is civ for sure is for Oogami to RC, nobody else RC’s Oogami, and his “cover” power is used and actually reflected in the writeup. There are other ways, I suppose, but that’s getting into a rat’s nest, right? If we end up with multiple Oogami RCs, we can’t be sure about who’s responsible for the save. We can investigate, and the Heir gets role info, but things are getting awfully complicated at this point, especially since Mafia could foil investigations.
In addition to that, we also have to confirm that we have at least one of the medics. If we tell the medics to protect a person, and also have Syo go after them, and then one of the medics RCs, we can indeed basically confirm that we have a medic. But do we ask both medics to RC? Hopefully we’d only get one RC, but if we didn’t, that would cause problems, as Azure mentioned. We could have two civ medics actually RC, or one or two mafia (most likely one) of any role (including a mafia medic!)
Based on that, I’m currently skeptical about following this plan. The “decision tree” is just too gigantic, and with all of the powers in play, there’s likely to be something we haven’t thought of that might allow mafia to screw it all up. Right? I admit that with all of the roles, I don’t claim to have it all 100% straight in my head. So, please critique this.
I agree. But knowing you own role is still most important.
I mean, yeah… you should not screw up the use of your own power.
@BTierBison: are you for or against the use of the medic “spreading” plan that PW is advocating for?
Dear God. Again, how is this any worse than Syo killing a random civilian based on their own judgment? You know it’s going to happen. At least this would have some thought and a plan behind it.
And the chances of actually picking that role out of 23 people?..
I was under the assumption that the ability only affects the write-up and is not an actual protection. Therefore, if Syo and the mafia medic target the same person, Syo still gets his kill. @GodotsRevenge : Clarification.
You know that I only made my suggestion so we can abuse Pimp Willy’s idea, right? The sooner we learn we have a medic, the better. Instead you’d rather wait later into the game after they’re dead or they get lucky and protect correctly (this doesn’t happen often). But whatever. Shit all over my suggestion if you like. I was only trying to help out.
You’re overcomplicating it
Oogami comes out and says who they are. Nobody else role claims.
Medic protects Oogami. both medics, since they don’t know eachother identity. I assume hall monitor was turned and the Nurse wasn’t, but there’s still the chance they both were.
That’s it.
Oogami gets to protect 2 people a night, medic protects oogami, that means there’s basically 3 people a night saved (Oogami plus his two picks).
Medic doesn’t have to role claim. it’d be great if Medic was known, because oogami could protect the two of them plus a third, but it doesn’t matter. This works until the medic is killed.
If we don’t have any medics, then Oogami dying isn’t that bad, as it potentially reveals a mafia as well.
so what’s to lose?
Oogami, I hope you role claim before the end of the day, and medics, I hope you’re on board if you’re on our side.