SRK Competitive Pokemon Battling Thread: Logoghoul and White Shadow Win! Bye Gen 6!

General Discussion
1901

Could some third party come in and objectively look at my list?

I want someone to give me logical rebuttals that don’t break down into, “It’s dumb and I don’t like it, that’s why it should be banned,” because that is incredibly stupid reasoning to ban anything.

First off, personal insults?!? You really take my off-hand comments as insults? Is this even SRK anymore? You haven’t seen insults yet… I’m just joking, calm down.

Secondly, you’ll have to forgive me since everything you say is word-for-word what would come from your typical Smogoner.

Lastly, when and where has Evasion been “tested” to death and back? Gen I when there were no true counters, or are you talking about the pathetic mess over at that other place when they let Evasion into Ubers and no one even attempted to build counters into their teams, got Evasion-trolled, and then bitched and whined when they couldn’t hit anything? Because that ain’t testing.

Even then, there’s a shit ton more ways to deal with it now, so using past experiences is moot in regards to testing it… and I still didn’t cover everything in my list-

Snatch- Steal those DTs for yourself and lol as your opponent has the table flipped on them. Also works for stealing Dragon Dances/Recovers and Substitutes, too.

Toxic- When used by a Poison type, Toxic NEVER misses. If someone wants to be dumb enough to spam DT while their health slowly whittles away, then GG.

Thunder/Hurricane- In Rain, Thunder and Hurricane never miss. Thunder has a 30% chance to paralyze and Hurricane has a chance to confuse. I thought weather was all the rage anyway, right?

1902

it has been tested and there are battle even on the simulators in which you can turn off all the clauses if you want to, and also through wifi

snatch doesn’t solve the problems of evasion and is terribly distributed (i feel like i’m saying this a lot)

the toxic thing i have never heard of and after a quick google search, that must be a new mechanic this year that i never heard of, still doesn’t solve the inherent problem of invasion (overcentralizing)

thunder/hurricane/blizzard require a specific team to be used against evasion and even then, thanks to the weather nerf, aren’t entirely reliable, all the opponent has to do is carry ttar, ninetails, or mega zard Y and these moves now have the base accuracy of 70% or worse (in thunder’s case), getting around evasion is still a problem

yes there are a lot of options but the best ones are terribly distributed (haze, clear smog, and aura sphere) and outside of aura sphere, the other two are situational moves in which forcing the switch is a way better option to get rid of boosted stats, evasion defeats the entire idea of countering as now DT or Minimize boosting pokemon effectively have no counters thanks to your 100% accuracy move being now at 80%, which after using stone edge a few times is not very good

you are forcing people to run things, creating a lot of imbalance, instead of opening up options, you are limiting options, this is like if we removed the sleep clause from competitive battling, forcing people to use specific pokemon or strategies to just get around one or two moves, you can’t choose to ignore cause if you do, you’ll get swept

this is also the inherent problem with moody, if the moody user happens to get the evasion boost first, it’s pretty much game over, especially against smeargle and octillery (smeargle can sleep, taunt, ingrain, and BP to keep his boosting going and octillery is a pretty good offensive threat after some boosts), there is no reliable way to stop moody and causes a team to sweep way too easily

evasion enables the user way too high of a match swing in his favor to be used competitively, and you apparently are the only person who actually wants evasion

also, you called me obtuse…that’s just not cool

1903

I pretty much agree with Mood on evasion. It requires way too much to counter and the options to counter are not that great. If we’re talking about unbanning stuff, why not allow para-flinch teams with King’s Rock? Can you imagine how incredibility busted a para-flinch team would be with nothing but Leftovers or King’s Rock plus Double Team? You would never be able to kill the team. Ever.

1904

find a counter to this, under the sand

Garchomp @ Brightpowder
Sand Veil / Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Double Team
Outrage
Earthquake
Fire Blast

After 1 DT boost, your 100% accurate Ice beam goes down to roughly 60%, the same as thunder naturally does, oh garchomp is bulky enough to take some unstabbed ice beams, let alone, the coverage on this thing alone is absurd

is this something you really want to deal with?

also, king’s rock has never banned, you can use king’s rock with a paraflinch team if you want, never heard of king’s rock being banned, in fact, i think king’s rock is cloyster’s best item (51% flinch rate on rock blast/icicle spear)

1905

Oh maybe I heard wrong then.

1906

No guard Machamp with ice punch and dynamic punch? That’s all I can think of to take on that garchomp. A check could be gyrados which uses intimidate to at least weaken it plus it’s resist to fire blast and immune to EQ.

I recall fighting a DT team someone made when i took random fights in gen 4 from ganefaqs. Battle took forever but I still won. The use if DT while frowned upon again takes up a valuable move slot that can be used elsewhere.

Not saying i welcome DT use but more like If I needed to deal with it, I can.

1907

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Bold Nature

  • Toxic/psych up/curse/foul play/heal bell/moon light
  • Wish
  • Protect
  • Mean Look

Takes 3 hits for garchomp to KO umbreon with outrage 4 with earthquake and he can heal himself with wish and protect. Mean look to keep garchomp trapped if he happens to get toxic on him and at least one should get on him. Umbreon works best if toxic spikes is on the field and you can’t avoid toxic spikes. If there is toxic spike user on your team, you can replace toxic with psych up to copy stats, curse to increase def, or foul play for offense. 2 hits to ko garchomp with foul play. Foul Play has 24 PP and hope at least 2 of them hits.

Dusclops @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Impish Nature

  • Mean Look
  • Curse
  • Rest
  • psych up

Outrage does 30%-35% to dusclops. mean look to trap garchomp then curse it to death. You can use psych up to copy its stats and rest to heal.

Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 4 SpAtk / 252 HP / 252 def
Modest Nature

  • Aromatherapy
  • Wish
  • Disarming Voice
  • Protect

Earthquake does 45-54% on florges, but florges can heal herself with wish and protect. You can stall it untill garchomps earthquake runs out then finish off garchomp with disarming voice which never misses and takes 3 hits to kill.

1908

toxic isn’t going to help as after 1 DT boost, it’s accuracy is now 48.6%, a 100% accurate move (which really has 99.6%) goes down to 53.784%

is this something we are okay with dealing with
those sets do work but outside of counters my shitty garchomp set which i could shake things up and go

Garchomp @ Brightpowder
Sand Veil / Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Double Team
Swords Dance
Outrage
Earthquake

and pretty much leave togekiss and air balloon fairies, which really outside of togekiss, wouldnt’ be viable
and just changing one move means that those sets up there are now worthless (especially dusclops without eviolite, who wouldn’t be used anyways)

1909

Just because the accuracy is at 50% doesn’t mean it will always miss. I’ll just keep having my umbreon spam toxic until it hits. And if i have toxic spikes up before i get garchomp up, he is screwed.

@Mood4food77 can you set up a team on showdown that contains a sand veil garchomp w/ brightpowder? I wanna see how well my team handles double team users.

1910

oh dear god, i can, just need some food first

should we do po’s rules where mega kanga, mega gengar, and blaziken are allowed, as well as OHKO and moody? or just evasion?

1911

Take your time, just let me know when you are ready.

1912

i have a team ready, what’s the username?

1913

Same thing as my srk username. What is yours?

1914

I’d like to see this replay.

1915

It’s gonna be like 300 turns long lol

1916

GGs Mood :slight_smile: I feel like you made me become a better pokemon trainer!

Well here is my matches against mood
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/customgame-72843709
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/customgame-72847452
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/customgame-72849564

And one with his main team vs my main team.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-72852036

1917

That’s what the speed up function is for.

1918

no no, the final battle was the only real long one and that took under 60 turns, so don’t worry

1919

I just watched them, actually. Was interesting.

1920

i don’t think they actually show anything about evasion or mega gengar, but blaziken and moody are really fucking stupid

it also showed my team being retardedly weak to gyarados, should’ve used rotom