Only if the Poke in question is faster. They’re all on the same Priority Tier.
A note, if your Poke DOES outspeed the one using Sucker Punch, the Sucker Punch will fail. Hence why using it against Talonflame is an effort in futility.
I can change the calcs, but if I remember correctly i’ts actually HARDER to survive stuff at 50. I’ve “beaten” mega kahns before by tossing in defensive goodra and toxicing, but that’s supe rsketchy as A. I’m sacrificing at least goodra B. toxic can miss(as can willowisp etc…) C. I still have to stall out some turns. Faster fighting types totally work as REVENGE killers, but if the ONLY way to stop something is revenge killers, then that thing is just way way too impactful to be fair.
edit: oh actually level 50-100 is the same for damage calcs, or at least it is for these calcs. Is that blaziken or mega blaziken, that does make a slight difference. Normal blaziken with life orb and adament does 99.7 - 117.7% to modest 252 health goodra. Modest 252 spattack goodra does, 85.7 - 100.9% to no defensive investment blaziken. Mega blaziken tilts both those numbers more in blazikens favor(mega blaz does more damage and is faster than life orb blaz, and has better defenses).
Damage is higher at Level 50.
Ah I see I see. And Extreme Speed has absolute priority over those because all the other priorities is at +1 while ES is at +2?
Correct unless you want to go in deeper like with Protect and such. But for Priority attack, ES is supreme (not counting Pursuit against switchers) against everything except Fake Out.
Stone Edge is rarely used, but using it generally means Blaziken is sacrificing another important move in its slot, and that an issue. It can’t do everything. And even if it passes onto something, whatever its passing to isn’t going to get in undamaged (and Team Preview makes for slim picking in terms of viable Pokemon to pass to). That said, my point wasn’t whether or not Blaziken is broken, but just addressing the very attempt (or lack thereof) in finding some malleability in the metagame.
But I digress… when Pokebank arrives, I think MegaKanga will definitely be universally banned. On paper S-Toss MegaKanga does seem a bit much, and pretty braindead to use. I can see entire teams being devoted to countering such a monstrosity. Most offensive Ghost types have mediocre HP as well, so just by foregoing one turn to transform and hitting the switching Ghost with Scrappy S-Toss then henshin into a Crunch to seal the deal if they commit to staying in.
an important note also is that sucker punch fails if it doens’t go first, so watch out!
Ah weird, perhaps I’ve been forgetting about spikes or something, would they push it over?
I just believe we should check every single avenue first, I mean even being forced to revenge kill can only be a 1 for 1 depending on the pokemon trying to revenge kill, that doesn’t sound like banning levels just yet.
And that is if we don’t have anthing that could punk him, how does Rotom hold up with his ability to not give a flying fuck about fighting, normal or ground attacks?
Also thinking perhaps eviolite Dusclops (denys Kangaskan his powerups and cage matchs him with infestation, need to check how well he holds up against earthquakes, but considering that they aren’t stabbed and that he has all the defense with eviolite) or one of the Grass Ghosts depending on how they hold up elsewhere (seen people experimenting with them, but dunnot how much those weaknesses screw them elsewhere, want to expriment once I get my hands on a harvet Trevenant)
I mean personally I’m looking at Mega Pinsir, if Kangaskan switchs in mid sweep then close combat should hopefully do the trick after he eats something on the switch and if Mega Pinsir has to switch out against a Talonflare or something and Kangaskan comes in after that’s been dispatched I’ll hapilly chuck something under the bus and take the revenge kill. (Probably one that’s already done its job, preferably something that will die before sucker punch no2 hits.)
IMO with the advent of Mega blaziken he doesn’t need protect at all, Adamant Mega blaziken is more damaging and faster than jolly life-orb normal blaziken. He also doesn’t wear himself down and has better defenses so taking a single hit doesn’t matter as much. The most sensical replacements for protect are baton pass and stone edge, either of which gets it out safely and still does a lot for the team. Sure whatever is coming in has to take some damage from chandelure, but it also has speed boosts and possibly power boosts. In the case of blaziken I don’t think much testing was needed since we had already played in an environment that HAD speed boost blaziken for awhile, the game didn’t change THAT much, and one of the changes(megas) made blaziken SIGNIFICANTLY better. Mega kahn needed more testing, and he’s gotten more testing, months more! And it hasn’t even been decided yet.
Bold max defense max hp dusclops is pretty solid, only takes like 1/3rd hp from earthquake, he obviously can’t attack(not that dusclopse does a lot of attacking) because sucker punch hurts him pretty bad. Some mega kahns run fire punch which would probably be bad news for any of the grass/ghosts, especially if it predicts the switch. I’d also say if bulky ghosts are literally the only choice of switch in on him that’s a little broke(I assume mood did the calcs on lugia/mega aggron for switching into PUP).
while revenge killing is never a bad idea, it’s the fact that you are forced to revenge kill that makes it bad, and hell, talonflame’s brave bird barely does 50% to it, breloom’s mach punch does like 70% max
eviolite dusclops sucks and shouldn’t be bothered bringing it up because the only reason it’s useful is because it semi stops mega kanga and only so on a revenge kill, it’s a terrible pokemon and is definitely a liability on a team
both trev and gourgeist are 2HKO’d by crunch (the most common coverage move mega kanga uses)
also, from personal experience, harvest trev is annoying as fuck and i love it
megapinsir against megakanga is like a 50/50 roll, they have like 50/50 chances to KO each other in every situation but whoever guesses right wins
all of this discussion is about singles meta right?
yes, doubles is really well balanced and all of these megas aren’t broken except for mega kanga
I need some criticism for a Malamar set I made. I’ve been doing well with this, but I feel like there’s a lot I could improve.
Malamar @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Speed, - SpA Nature
-Superpower
-Night Slash
-Destiny Bond
-Taunt
Superpower and Night Slash for his usual brain-dead sweeping, Destiny Bond for a Bug-type or a strong special attack (He only really gets one chance to sweep anyways due to Superpower PP, may as well bring someone down with it), and Taunt to prevent the usual non-attacking shit (especially Will-O-Wisp).
destiny is bad on something that wants to blast holes in teams, taunt is useful but i don’t think it’s fast enough to really use it but i’d keep that and play with it, rock slide might be a better move to use over destiny bond but it’s movepool is pretty lacking (rock slide is to hit mandibuzz)
Try Psycho cut or Substitute over destiny bond. The recommended set I found has EV’s in attack and special defense with 32 in HP I am guessing to gain a life point in leftovers regeneration. I haven’t use Malamar yet but this seems to be the most popular set.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-70590862 Me vs @Bulldancer, Round 2. He’s gonna post Round 1.
I’m sorry, Po, I sold out… The Rotom urge was too strong :shake:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oubeta-70588908 -Set between me and Phantom Angel
I’m pretty sure he’s going to post one soon where he completely whips that ass…
I’m not contesting it’s viability, but the set you posted isn’t what I normally saw, it was usually a toss up between SD, BP or Protect. I don’t care about its optimization but rather the trends.
Eh it’s whatever though. There are other threats to worry about now.
I hate to admit it but I want Pokémon Z already. I don’t have Pokébank transfers to fall back on. ;_;
yeah I’m curious as to what they’ll do with pokemon Z. I’m hoping will get a new round of old starters(gen 2 starters?) with megas. See new tutors come in, maybe some kind of alternate ability/form for zygarde(because seriously, his ability is worthless). Maybe that legendary trio that doesn’t seem to exist yet.
I want to run evolite Dusclops but key is when to go in:
252 HP 252Def 4 Sp def
WoW
Pain split
Torment
Protect
Kanga isn’t taunting so attacks will be bound to sucker punch EQ or maybe crunch. Protect is there to scout which it has and act accordingly. Torment once you know what you can take foring it to alter attacks and throw it off balance or pain split to weaken it. If yiu get the alt fire punched WoW to cripple.
Fuck Mood’s opinion It can work. I have used Torment dusknoir with a similar setup. Evolite changes a few things but God forbid we TRY something different and test.