Lmao… Is this how it goes down on these sims?
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-70435678
I never said you did…I said you just SOUND like it…again you just…never read do you?
I’d side with Po simply because the whole “no-one runs this counter thing” stinks of someone being so set in their metagame that they don’t even see counters to shit and just go straight for the banhammer.
Its like if someone bought a deck with lots of sweepers into a scrubby MtG group full of weenie decks and they just ban that shit because no-one there runs counter spells.
Also I’ve seen people on smogen say that certain pokemans can’t handle OU but may be good in ubers, that just sets my bullshit ban detector through the roof.
Well that and the fact that Blaziken is made of paper and has no priority moves, if people didn’t worry so much about one hit getting protected and just smacked him rather than giving him a free swords dance turn he wouldn’t be a bloody problem
That’s because there are different match ups in Ubers than there are in OU. It’s funny, because they set up these tiers and dictate what can and can’t be used in them while failing to realize that doing so alienates possible checks or counters to the “broken” stuff. It works to an extent, but it’s difficult to create a perfect system that keeps everything balanced, fair, and fun.
For educational purposes I created a generic “smogon” team to gauge the metagame, and I finally see why they complain about these threats. The standard team design pretty much exacerbates the threat these (i.e. Talonflame, Blaziken, etc.) basically allowing them and easy avenue to sweep. I mean Flash Fire Chandelure walls the fuck out of standard Blaziken and yet I never heard it mentioned on Smogon once! (Could’ve been but got lost in the ether.)
Talonflame pretty much punches through anything after your main physical wall dies to me it’s more centralizing than Blaziken based on its function and ability.
This is the reason I find Weakness Policy Dragonite so laughable because players think they can bait a switch-in activation and instead get wore down. Everyone X-copied the set which made the concept even more gimmicky than the “gimmicks” smogoners bash when players bring something truly novel.
Standard Pokémon teams (not referring to team building fundamentals) makes these threats more than what they are because the OU environment gives them free reign due to overuse of the same Pokémon THAT ARE NOT WORKING. Then they get confused as to why they can’t find solutions.
I don’t care who sides with who or who thinks what is broken. I just want to play the dang game.
That’s like usually low ranking guys. You’ll get random forfeits in higher ranks sometimes.
That nigga was so ultra trash, did he really do lead Lucario, who in the hell does that?
And his team was a bunch of OU randoms with a Blissey, no synergy whatsoever.
(In other words, when I’m free play me nigga, I made a non-pokebank team)
Lol… I was testing my team out before making changes after I battled Mood, but these people didn’t know wtf they were doing. A Scolipede SD’d twice, BP’d into Mawile, and swept me, though…
Hit me up in the Skype chat when you’re available.
the whole thing with “no one runs this counter” is like a niche, the pokemon is good for only one thing and if you remove it, it sucks
parasect and shedinja are two pokemon who are infinitely better in ubers than they would ever be in OU, just because you’re good in one tier doens’t mean you’re good in another tier, hell, ditto is useful in all tiers and that thing was RU or NU last generation (it’s good, just not as reliable as scizor or dugtrio at revenge killing)
blaziken comes in on your steel type, your steel type is probably full life so you don’t want to risk it, he forces you out and sets up SD, the other option is you could risk taking a flare blitz or a HJK to the face and try to hit him, but is it really worth losing your defensive pivot that early? especially a BP set-up that allows blaziken to rape your face, or allows something else to rape your face, it’s not the swords dance/speed boost/baton pass combo that’s broken either (since scolipede and ninjask can do it), it’s blaziken that breaks it
flash fire chandelure is a great counter to blaziken…and it’s usefulness stops there, it lost shadow tag as a hidden ability but gained infiltrator (while a really good ability, chandelure doesn’t have the speed to fully abuse it), it’s entirely outclassed by gengar as a revenge killer, sub user, and even just a wall breaker, it’s not fast enough to be used as an all out offensive monster and it doesn’t have the bulk to be a bulky offensive poke either, it’s typing is pretty bad defensively
so what i’m getting at is yes, chandelure walls the fuck out of blaziken, but after that, it’s more likely a liability on your team unless you support it greatly
even something like quagsire, who stops physical set up sweepers cold, is a liability, it doesn’t deal much damage, it’s weak to a very common HP type (grass), and can’t do jack shit to common walls like ferrothorn, skarmory, blissey, etc, and i honestly think it’s outclassed by clefable in every way now this gen
weakness policy dragonite i find to be underwhelming but it’s not bad, definitely not a shitty gimmick, it will gain in popularity once dnite can get extreme speed, agility weakness policy is really freaking good (just like autonomize weakness policy aegislash)
do not put the entire smogon community into one statement saying that they can’t find a solution to everything, they can and have (sableye makes mega kanga it’s bitch), it doesn’t mean it is still not stupid and the metagame would be healthier without it, once you get higher up you start to see things that are broken PoS’ and really need to go
And if shit wasn’t banned so quickly and put into ubers, shit which is only good in ubers would become good in general as the shit they counter wouldn’t be segregated away elsewhere.
And yeah, if your team is so flimsy and slow with no priority attackers that it’ll fall over dead if you let Blaziken get that plus 2 then you take the risk, although one has to question why your team lets one fire/fighting pokemon go through it like a hot knife through butter in the first place.
Shit, when I first came up against Gale Wing talonflare it completely swept my shit just like that, instead of crying that it needed banning, I manned the fuck up and made sure I had more than one thing around which didn’t die as soon as priority stab moved came in, or that had priority attacks themselves.
Right now mega kangaskan bodies my team, tommorow it won’t, and for forever you won’t be able to stop people using him even if the scrubs at Smogen kick him out of their little circle jerk.
And if shit comes out with typings or moves which body your steel defenders (eg. Mega Blaziken, Mega Kangaskan), perhaps, urgh you should grab a defender who isn’t a steel type, for instance Goodra will take hits from both of those guys and eat them/phase them out to ditch the buffs with relative ease.
You’re assuming Chandelure has to serve solely as a Blaziken counter and won’t be synergized into a team. The idea of the Chandelure example, is that it can function as a Blaziken counter while simultaneously fulfilling it’s dynamic in the team. Keep in mind just the presence of Chandelure will make an opponent wonder “Should I use my Sub/Seed Trevenant now, or is it smart to do Will~O~Wisp if he switches?” All the while Chandelure is just chillin’ and you can use that “X” or unknown value to your advantage. There’s more to battling than just actual damage calcs, and team dynamics can dictate a player’s decision, which in the end affects the overall outcome of the match.
Chandelure being a ghost doesn’t automatically make it comparable to Gengar, who has more versatility overall, but not the same niche. Chandelure’s 400+ S.ATK isn’t something to ignore, especially when the Ghost typing has received a huge offensive boost. Chandelure isn’t exceptional, but it can serve a team in a different way, especially with its unique abilities.
Now if you were going to compare Mismagius to Gengar, that would be more apt since they govern many similar roles.
I never said it was a shitty gimmick (if it starts up your team is pretty screwed if unprepared, and Multiscale makes for a solid foundation), just extremely bandwagoned to the point where players end up screwing themselves using all their resources to set it up. That weakens the overall threat it is meant to have. That’s my point.
goodra gets raped by mega kanga:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 240-285 (62.5 - 74.2%) – guaranteed 2HKO, goodra isn’t winning that battle anytime soon, although gooey fucks it up, this goodra dies next turn as mega kanga still outspeeds, good job, you lost goodra and mega kanga is still very alive as goodra is coming nowhere close to OHKOing mega kanga
might as well do mega blaziken:
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 246-289 (64 - 75.2%) – guaranteed 2HKO
yea, goodra is really taking hits there, and blaziken doesn’t care about gooey that much, it can revenge kill but that’s about it, your goodra just took a fuckton of life and something else on your team is already dead, 1.5 pokemon to take out 1? that’s totally fair
right now, the only thing that has a hope of walling mega kangaskhan is sableye, everything other ghost is 1-2HKO’d by crunch, even cofagrigus, sableye has priority wisp, recover, foul play does a lot after kanga is +2, and it isn’t 2HKO’d by crunch or sucker punch, only poke who claims this
talonflame is stupid but keeps so many things in check, it’s the best revenge killer out there and it’s usage is so high because it does so much damage as it can revenge kill and sweep easier than scizor can, ttar, heatran, and rotom-w are reliable counters
chandelure is only a great counter to blaziken if it’s not running stone edge or baton pass. Also much like mega gengar mega blaziken isn’t actually squishy. 80/80/80 and resisting steel means only pretty strong priority is going to kill him
But then what holes in your team did you open by filling your kangaskahn hole, and then you plug the next hole etc… and then suddenly the game is over at team select because we let mewtwo, and blaziken, and kangaskahn in. There’s no way goodra switches into mega kahn, PUP+return will mega kill him(or two returns), and that’s 0 invested mega kahn vs bold/252hp/252 def goodra. if you go modest against adament/252 attack mega kahn he one shots goodra with return at +0. Mega blaziken has a chance of one shotting bold max defense/hp goodra with +0 jump kick, and definitely does with swords dance.
edit: Slight correction here, mega blaz only kills bold max hp goodra, if your bold max hp, and max defense you survive, but are still solidly two shot.
I suppose you’ve never given Goodra acid armour have you?
And who cares about Blaziken being able to 2HKO when Goodra 1 hit murks him with Muddy Water?
Not to mention that if you have a ghost on your team Blaziken will already be shit scared of high jumping.
Mega Kanga can either eat goo and whatever attack you have on goodra and then get ready to be revenge killed next turn, or get dragon tailed the fuck out of there to ditch any power up punch buffs he may have if you’ve let him get a couple in.
And fuck thats just one example, there are plenty of pokemon out there, the roster isn’t just limited to the Smogen copy paste shit.
he 2HKOs fucking mega aggron and lugia, what the hell is going to survive against mega kanga?
how is acid armor going to help when it dies in one hit by things faster than it? blaziken is not one shot by muddy water unless you are running modest max special attack. If it’s mega blaziken you need life orb on top of that, and in either case as soon as you are modest HJK is a one shot(unless you are modest with defense EV and HP EV’s for some reason).
So to beat mega kahn with goodra, you switch in, do a little bit of damage, and then die and let the next thing kill it? That doesn’t even sound like a good check, and if you don’t do an appreciable amount of damage kanga can just switch out, and then come back in later. Mega kahn isn’t some suicide setup that is going to be absolutely crippled by a weak dragon tail or switching out, it’s not volcarona that loses half it’s hp every time it switches. He does big damage with no set up, and has great bulk. That’s again, assuming you’ore running bold max defense max hp goodra, otherwise you get one shot by return with 0 set up.
you don’t need to tell us this. EVERYONE that posts on this forum runs outside the smogon meta, this has been brought up a hundred times, literally every person I’ve fought here uses stuff all over the board. I actually, literally run bold/max defense/max hp goodra, I won the tournament with it.
I’m extending the rotation sign-up to end on Wednesday. We’re going in right after that, so if you are on the fence go ahead and come on down!
I am talking flat level 50 battles if that makes a difference, also running on the game itself not a simulator and yeah it happens my mates Goodra 1 shots my Blaziken with muddy water, don’t know his exact build, but it survives HJK as well. (I know his item is assult vest)
And yeah my own HP/Def/Sdef Goodra has yet to be one shot by Kangaskan, even when the Kangaskan has come in to revenge something else (although in that case I usually have an acid armour up), maybe the Kangaskans I’ve faced so far had shit IVs?
And if tanking him doesn’t work how about hitting him with a staus effect or even just hitting him with a faster fighting type?
I know a stabbed rock slide from Tyrantrum does about half his life so, something equivalent fighting type wise should end his ass?
Things need to be left to play out for much longer, the burden is not upon people using a tactic which is working to stop using it, it is upon us to find a way around it.
Does Mach punch/Vaccum Wave have priority over Sucker Punch? Noob question here.