It’s easy to call something shallow when you haven’t given the chance to experience its depth… Go watch some Competitive Battling videos, and you’ll see that it’s far from shallow.
there’s too much prediction involved for this to be shallow
I don’t know enough about the game to know if you’re wasting your time, that’s why I asked. On principle, yes, any game that takes major tweaking to be competitive probably isn’t worth the time to invest into. Pokemon is full of such rules, so from the outside looking in, I don’t understand the “why” of competitive pokemon.
I have seen some, and it’s basically the same formula and pokemon used every time, care to link something you consider good?
I think the analogy of somebody saying all fighters are button mashers is a good one, so enlighten me, where does the strategy come in?
Well the rules come from Smogon which we’re ignoring because they take Smash rules to another level. They’ll ban anything that even looks at them wrong.
As for the why, because people want to compete in a lot of things. This is just one of the main things.
As for where the strategy comes in, there’s a lot. Prediction, Movesets, team building. It’s not as simple as put 6 different types of Pokemon with strong moves and go.
To answer that fully will take a while and I have to teach a few people how to do things anyway. So you might as well stick around while I do that. You’ll get your answers one way or another.
same pokemon used every time? you really need to look at more matches then because even the most use pokemon is “only” on 1 out of every 5 teams, and even if teams have similar pokemon on them, doesn’t mean the same strategies apply
i’ll use tyranitar for this example as he’s a very versatile pokemon
you can have him as a dragon dance sweeper (where he uses dragon dance to make himself faster and stronger in hopes to sweep), a choice bander (using choice band to plant holes in the opposing team, very hard to switch into), lead support (in the lead spot, setting up stealth rock and sand for your teams benefits), etc
he has many sets that are viable and none play the same
to compare it to fighters, on surface, someone unknowledgeable might think that a fighter is just people mashing buttons in hopes of hitting the other when in fact, there are many variables to take into account like footsies and the range of an attack
pokemon falls under the same thing, even though you may see a tyranitar on many teams, it’s very unlikely they are there for the same reason
Matter of fact, compare Pokemon to MvC2 or MvC3.
Could have very similar teams, but characters will fulfill different roles depending on team build and their assists. Same thing here. And the thing is unlike said Fighting Games, you won’t even know their role until they come out and actually start attacking.
Still not seeing any examples. I checked out the nintendo world championships, but is doubles actually considered the standard format for battling?
Also, isn’t the reason you see less overlap because so many of the pokemon that would be used all the time get banned (i.e. moved to ubers)? Once something becomes dominant, it’s removed? What is the criteria for banning things currently in the community?
The last few matches I watched (which was a long time ago, mind you, when Black/White was new) I don’t think I saw a non scizor team, or at least I remember him being super important
(I’m glad you guys are starting with a clean slate here though, that’s true SRK style)
Well, the OFFICIAL official stuff is Nintendo doing Double Battles, though we don’t know how they’ll move forward in Gen VI. It’s possible they could go to singles.
And you’ll still see overlap anyway. Their criteria is, people bitch, they end up testing which raises a Pokemon’s usage too high, they get banned.
As for Scizor, he’s the best lol. No but really, he’s in a lot of teams because he’s a great lead and has great typing. But even then his role can change. Could be a Choice Band set, or surprise, Swords Dance Sweeper. Those are the things you have to watch out for. Especially now that everything has been shaken up in Gen VI. Literally everything has changed.
I really wish I saw this thread sooner.
Glad to see people have come to terms with why Evasion clause is necessary, and Sleep Clause to a lesser degree. Species clause makes sense too but we’ll see… It’s most likely implied anyway
I think for things where common sense tells you it’s broken (i.e. MegaMewtwo-X, Arceus, etc…) I’m sure we can have soft bans where both parties can agree to use them.
Scizor is the Doom of Pokemon. Fits on every team nearly perfectly and provides excellent support, but can hold his own one-on-one. It(and a lot of other mons)are everywhere because a lot of people can’t think for themselves and let Smogon tell them what’s good and how to play.
Anyway, there are two things we can do to instruct everyone on this.
A) We can just do the guides as planned but it will take a while.
or
B) We set aside a day for a Skype group and instruct personally.
So I just want to know.
Is Mewtwo allowed?
That looks like some random ass casuals, you’re telling me those teams are competitive?
I thought you wanted a display of depth… This video gives you a taste of it, along with showing that people don’t always have to pick the same overused Pokemon.
Here’s one with better teams:
http://youtu.be/kDttDnDguiw
I’d honestly say that the real depth of Pokemon battles lies in Doubles and Triples when you have more than one Pokemon on the field.
Those battles are much faster paced, and don’t rely on so much switching and stalling. There’s a ton more stuff that you need to know and understand in order to win in those battle styles.
I mean what I’m looking for is good videos of the game being played at the competitive level, tournament level play, if those videos are representative of competitive play then I’m impressed
Yeah, that’s pretty much what you can expect. The videos Phantom’s been putting up are pretty good examples of what tournament play is like.
thing about it is, (and I have said this many many many times on here regarding nintendo games in genreal) is that they slap balance in via luck based gameplay which is a poor and lazy way out of fixing things. They do this in Smash, Mario Kart, Mario Party and so on because their games aren’t purely aimed at 20 something gents like us (some of us 30 something) who understand complex strategy and mindgames. They make them for kids so that is why luck is involved. Gives kids a way to break through even the best of well thought out strategies. the mechanics for deeper gameplay is there but unlike what capcom did early on and ran with what the community dictated, Nintendo does it their way force feeding us new shit whether we like it or not and we HAVE to work around it.
It’s why I can’t ever enter a pkmn tourney by Nintendo. They force lvl 50 doubles, they force a time limit, they force aggressive style play. That being said Gen 6 of the games HAVE shown some improvement to the gameplay and battles with less power and yet we now have mega pkmn which turns shit on its head. Some seem ok others…well lets see what happens in the coming weeks as to what is truly broken.
pokemon can be very deep…if it wasn’t held back by it’s (Gamefreak/nintendo) way of balancing things…