It was a couple of times but some people like to pretend they run Shadow Claw on Blaziken and that Chandlure won’t work.
max HP choice band azumarill and choice scarf chandelure are the only 2 counters to blaziken, talonflame is the next closest thing but has to worry about SR
there’s nothing else that’s stops him and that’s the problem, you need at least 2 of these guys (basically azumarill and one of the fire guys), and if you don’t, you need to redo your team
i say keep him for now since we only have a handful of people playing together here and then eventually decide if he’s really that dumb (smogon did already ban him)
chandelure has a terrible speed stat for trick room (base 90), that’s just asking for something like tyranitar or jellicent to come in and rape your chandelure
LOL Smogon. LOL Blaziken.
Blaziken too stronk… No counters. No other way to stop it than by switching in those specific mons. No one else has done it any other way. Just like no one has ever stopped a Garchomp/Scizor/Tyranitar than by using what the Smogon Bible designates as counters.
Nope. No hope. Might as well quit playing.
scizor is beat by pretty much any water/electric/fire type, he’s always number 1 because he’s the best dragon revenge killer out there, bar none, he’s easy to beat as there are so many options
garchomp with sand veil was dumb, saw someone lose cause they missed 4 ice beams in a row allowing chomp to SD up and sweep, without it, he’s still really good but does have a hard time with bulky water types (which are really common), especially since they can OHKO him with ice beam
ttar is in a similar boat as garchomp, except he’s not as offensive, he’s slow as shit, doesn’t have a super strong move (his strongest move is stone edge…real reliable), and gets OHKO by every fucking fighting type out there
blaziken 2HKOs everything, outspeeds everything in 2 turns, and has practically no checks or counters, bulky waters (who should check him) are all 2HKO’d by a +2 high jump kick and a lot of the time, and usually need priority to stop him, he also has baton pass to give off his +2/+2 boost to something else and let that sweep
you pretty much have to design a team that is dedicated to stopping him while the others are checked by similar mons (starmie 1-2HKOs all 4 of them for example, but requires a choice scarf to beat blaziken (which in turn lets it gets its face kicked in by ttar)
Surefire Counters
Chandelure doesn’t have to outspeed Blaziken, because Flash Fire makes it immune to Flare Blitz.
Extremespeed Dragonite
Gyarados
Trick Room Reuniclus
Talonflame
Moltres(Hurricane)
Reuniclus
Focus Sash Alakazam
Slowbro
Vaporeon
Mega Pinser(Aerialate+Quick Attack)
Donphan
Mega Kanghaskhan(Sucker Punch+Fake Out)
Destiny Bond Mega Banette
Hippowdon
Ryperior(he’s low-tier, so I’m not sure if he belongs here)
Gliscor
Jellicent
Landorus T
Thundurus(Priority Rain Dance/Taunt)
Noivern
Maybe
Tornadus T
Extremespeed Arcanine
Vaporeon
Salamence
Volcarona
Don’t throw the “These Pokemon are too situational to be effective” at me, all of these Pokemon are effective outside of the realm of a Blaziken counter.
I stopped Blaziken with Pikachu. I still don’t think he’s that bad.
Yes, Chandelure isn’t the best user of Trick Room. But using Trick Room COMPLETELY shuts down EVERY possible option that Blaziken would go for there. Protect/Baton Pass? Free Trick Room set-up. If they Baton Pass, Chandelure is guaranteed to be able to move before anything that Poke would try to do, barring Extremespeed/Aqua Jet/Bullet Punch. The former which it is immune to and the latter which it resists, though Aqua Jet could be problematic.
Yes, T-Tar would wreck Chandelure there. But that’s where you would switch to something that would resist what T-Tar would throw out and counter it. It’s not like Chandelure would be the only one using Trick Room on my team…
Does Mega Kanghaskhan learn Feint? It’s gimmicky and may not be worth running on most standard sets, but STAB double hitting Feint to break through protect users seems like it could be decent.
A counter in my eyes has to be able to switch in relatively safely and pose an immediate threat, I.E. Chandelure. Half of those things you listed Bull die if Blaze guesses correctly.
FTFY
a counter is something that can switch in on any move, live, and threaten to KO, under any situation, these are the only 2 pokes that achieve this
everything else is wrecked if SR is out or requires an item in order to acheive the counter, E-Speed dragonite needs a choice band, everything else is 2HKO’d and has to hope that blaziken is running the move it better deals with (in alakazam’s case, it has to hope blaze has baton pass and not protect)
unless chandelure has a choice scarf, blaziken just BPs away to something like garchomp, gyarados, etc and lets them do his dirty work (he’s scarier than they are under the same boosts but they are still damn scary), hell, a +2 choice band azumarill sounds really scary
the fuck, rhyperior? he gets wrecked from HJK
kangaskahn has be already mega to even have a chance, he gets OHKO’d by a hjk, any HJK
alakazam is OHKO’d by any flare blitz, has shitty life (so not much recoil) and is outrun by a +2 blaziken (unless for some reason, you use a choice scarf in which case it’s OHKO’d before it gets to do anything), so like i said, if blaze has protect, blaze wins, if it has baton pass, alakazam wins
trick room is also a bad move
I didn’t see it answered before, so is Team Preview still a thing?
Also, does sheer force negate life orb recoil still?
team preview is a thing. sheer force negating life orb still i have no idea.
Sheer Force Life Orb still works the same, i.e. no Life Orb recoil, but still get the attack boost.
I like how we’re using Smogon’s definition of what a counter is.
Every time they have a debate on something, the offensive pkmn has eight moves, +2 in its offensive stats, a Life Orb/Choice Item/Gem, Stealth Rock/3 layers of Spikes/2 layers ofToxic Spikes are down, and all of its attacking moves are 100% accurate.
So of course, the defending mon has to be able to survive a nuke with enough health left to still threaten a KO without dying in 2 turns.
I never said Blaziken wasn’t a threat*(Mega or not)*, but it is being severely overhyped.
I beat a Mega Blaziken with a Nuzzle Pikachu- 'Ken went for the SD, got paralyzed, died the next turn to a Thunderbolt. I haven’t even brought out Azumarill on a Blaziken yet, because I keep beating it in other ways by get this using my head and thinking around it.
I’m shitty at this game, but I do something I see that very few others do, and that’s thinking beyond calcs, formulas, and “the metagame.”
I punch things in the face… and when that doesn’t(or can’t) work, I find another way. Or I just punch harder, lol
More Klefki lols. This is gonna be worse than Jirachi and Togekiss ever were IMO.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-59195321
basically every counter you listed falls over if he takes stone edge, and chandelur is giving up a lot to not take shadow tag. And also a lot of the counters/counter strategies you list require reads. The reason people pretend like they have 8 moves for such threatening pokemon is because if you have a “counter” that dies to some of it’s moves sets, adn that’s your only real way to check it, and then you die because it had stone edge this time you may just lose the game. Having a team that can randomly lose the game if pokemon takes move X means you don’t have a counter to that pokemon.
I don’t believe that Chandelure can actually get Shadow Tag anymore (or rather, technically never could legally since the DW version never was released). I think they replaced that hidden ability with Infiltrator or something.
We’re not banning Blaziken… Just, no lol
Can we move on to another topic?
Ah fair enough, still falls under the, dies to stoned edge, and also takes a lot of damage from stealth rocks so can’t be switched in constantly.
edit: I don’t think we should ban blaziken, but we should probably keep an eye on him, he was good enough to be banned in the last generation(pretending he wasn’t is silly), and his mega only makes him more dangerous.
I just feel like in order to call something a Surefire Counter (Smogon definition or not) it needs to actually stand a chance at not dying and beating the opponent no matter what skill level you play at. Just because you’re playing well doesn’t mean your opponent can’t play well either.
Buuuut enough about Blaziken. I already said I wasn’t banning him.