who the fuck is using any of those moves that isn’t dragon rush?
stomp and steamroller are weak as hell
flying press has worse coverage than what hawlucha already runs (making it pointless)
phatom force is a two turn ghost attack, easy as hell to switch into
dragon rush has 75 accuracy and only 100 power, no reason to use it over outrage
the only reason you’re even considering these moves is minimize? isn’t that overcentralizing?
all the phazing moves have terrible distribution and usually neuter a poke more than help it and usually are limiting yourself to making a stall team, please tell me
here’s why blaziken is stupid:
does your team have blaziken? yes or no? if no, go to next question
does your team have 2 of these pokemon: azumarill, chandelure, talonflame? if no, your team is crap and needs to be redone
blaziken is stupid
moody is only stopped by those moves, limiting creativity, this is not a good thing. why the fuck should i carry a move because bidoof can sweep me? overcentralizing
to the person who mentioned aura sphere? that move has such terrible distribution, you’re again limiting yourself to using a handful of pokemon just to stop evasion teams, again overcentralizing (only lucario, mienshawo, and clawitzer learn the move so far, as we have no access to 5th gen and earlier pokes who get it yet)
OHKO moves just ruin the entire idea of throwing out a counter to the poke, you’re trying to counter the move instead of the player, overcentralizing again, limiting creativity
I have a Lucario on my team… I’m already equipped to deal with these things with my main team without going out of my way. That was the point.
Also, Mewtwo gets Aura Sphere and Blastoise gets it as an Egg Move… I’m sure there are others we haven’t discovered yet. Discovery… Keep that word in mind, because there is A LOT of time that needs to be spent on it rather than passing final judgement on everything so early.
Ironically I never had a problem with OHKO moves until Sheer Cold. Getting a insta-KO that takes absolutely no skill because Ice types have no immunity is lame.
After playing with Evasion I can tell you that it’s lame as all hell. It’s not even battling, it’s just a hellish nightmare. There’s no real strategy and phazing doesn’t solve anything in the long run. You’re going to dedicate your entire team to counter one “strat” that is luck based, which defeats the tenets of competitive play completely and simply isn’t fun.
Question for everyone against Evasion- Have you fought it in THIS GEN, with all the things available to counter it?
You mean to tell me no one has anyone on their team to deal with set-up sweepers like Gyarados or Scizor? No Roar/Whirlwind/Dragon Tail/Circle Throw/Haze/etc? Okay.
When you’re staring down that Gyarados hiding behind a Sub at +1 or +2 Speed/Attack, you’ll wish you had brought something that knew Roar…
OHKOs: Did you guys know that a lot of Japanese competitive analyses suggest using Horn Drill & friends as a filler option for countering mons that will switch in as supposed counters? *Cue this ain’t Japan comments *
I recall a Rhyperior set that had Horn Drill as a final move with comments mentioning how it could net surprise KOs on Water Types it normally couldn’t beat and net you a win…
You’re right…it does just stop. No confusion or nothing, lol…
I’ll have to edit that part out, but my point still stands that banning things because they were stupid in a previous version when measures have been taken to nerf them sounds real Smashboards-esque.
I mean, shit, Scizor is the most used Pokemon in the world-- You have to be prepared for it, or risk it slicing your team to shreds*(its the reason so many sets were calling for Hidden Power Fire for coverage-Is that not overcentralizing?)*, and I hate seeing that thing all the time, but you don’t see me calling it overcentralizing or asking for it to be banned…
So many logical fallacies to justify banning something because you don’t want to play against it…
scizor is easy to beat, electric, water, and fire types eat him up
no one wants to fight evasion but yes, people have and it’s still dumb as ever, nothing i’ve heard has been positive
gyarados and scizor are no where close to as dumb as blaziken, weaker moves, don’t get an instant boost to speed like blaziken, nor are their moves anywhere close to as strong, do i need to mention baton pass?
OHKO moves really really suck to play against, you start focusing on stopping that move than the actual player, it’s no fun when you have to worry about 1 fucking thing
Scizor is beatable, but popular due to its typing and well-balanced stat spread. Being popular doesn’t equate with overcentralizing.
@ po pimpus I can certainly meet you halfway, if you can find players eager to test haxmon’s/ evasion’s metagame viability and it is proven to be balanced through the aggregation of scenario playtests (i.e., How effective would counters be vs DT Steelix, Oblivious Slowbro or Moody Octillery w/ Suction Cups, etc.) then I would try it.
The playtests of the first 3 gens have proven it to be futile and simply not fun for anyone, but I feel pragmatism is needed if we are to move forward… at least on SRK.
Right now I’m leaning towards implementing OHKO’s and evasion clauses (and by extension Moody clause, sorry Godot) just because majority rules. Po, the counters you list seem situational (not every team runs roar) and Rhydon using Horn Drill to beat waters is like saying a Sniper with a cold on a windy day beats a man slowly aiming for him with a RPG. However, I am willing to ban just Sheer Cold and evasion items and also test out evasion moves (and Moody.)
To be honest, there ARE people out there who still don’t know where to get shit that’s basically handed to you.
My younger brother didn’t get the Gengarite, the Abomasnownite, and the Ampharosite… I gave 'em a back hand to let him know not to forget shit because most niggas will just fly past the cities if they beat the gym and then go, “Where the hell do I find x???”
Just the other day, I found the Metal Coat in the PokeBall Factory, now I just gotta find me a Scyther (which is in Route 19-20 I believe… not there yet lol)
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-59214584
Ugh Klefki is going to be annoying as hell. Thank goodness it doesn’t have recovery yet.
I plan to use a Dual Screen set with Spikes. I can’t decide on my 4th move yet.
Fine then. Majority rules and all that. Being the Devil’s Advocate sucks-- I feel like Galileo telling everybody the world is round… Give peace a chance?
White Shadow, I’ll hold you to that test one day soon if I can gather enough peeps to test it. I still feel the majority of the counters I listed are valuable for more than just stopping Evasion, but I guess that’s just my playstyle.
For shits and giggles- DT Steelix isn’t exactly a heavy hitter and is slow as fuck. I’m sure it won’t like being Taunted. Oblivious Slowbro can DT all it wants while Weavile Swords Dances and Night Slashes it.
I guess its a good thing Octillery can’t have Suction Cups and Moody at the same time- otherwise being slow and frail might give it a chance to set up…
OHKOs- Well whatever. I feel the only kind of stupid one is Sheer Cold. Gengar laughs at all the other ones… It doesn’t even have to change anything it normally does to negate them, either. Are you gonna tell me nobody uses Gengar?
Sheer Cold is only available to shitty Ice types(and Kyogre, who is Uber by default), who could probably use the move to do something other than just die to Sneaky Pebbles+ a decent Rock attack. Yeah, there’s StallRein, but lol StallRein…