Well, I’m never setting up on a Smeargle ever again.
Adjusting from Hyper Offense to a Defensive Grinding (almost stallish) team was tougher than I thought. At first I couldn’t get the team composition right. I couldn’t catch any breaks, and then I run into a shit ton of AV Conks back to back to back and I had no answer for him whatsoever. He’d take down 3-4 of my pokes before I could kill him because I just had fighting weaknesses everywhere.
So after going 3-15 on the day messing around with Defensive teams I finally think I found something that works. Although it took a bit of a mind game there at the end there with the prediction and switching between Greninja/Heatran/and MegaSaur.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-73485715
Of course there is also the possibility my opponent is terrible, so there’s that…
(So I’ll just ask in this thread rather than in the shorter one since that thread is geared more towards people who have the physical game…)
Is there any single place or single document that has a detailed yet clear and possibly concise list of the changes that sixth generation brought? Until this week, I wasn’t aware that Pokemon X and Pokemon Y were even out just because of how utterly out of the loop I am with regards to, well, everything. As such, it was only couple of days ago that I started trying to find out things about it, mostly via Serebii since I’ve been disenchanted with both GameFAQs and Smogon for…a while, and it’s been a bit annoying.
Serebii, as ever, has been rather informative, but information tends to be spread out all over the place, partly because there’s so much of it, and I’m not even quite sure it has everything, though it probably does since X and Y have been out for way longer than I thought. For instance, I completely missed that Steel type supposedly lost some resistances until I saw someone mention it in the other Pokemon thread here and I would have never noticed the Spore thing if someone else hadn’t mentioned it in the same thread.
Admittedly, I could have just missed the former though the first thing I was check on Fairy’s resistances and such and I remember getting eventually distracted by Ice being fucked over yet again. Geez. I really can’t say that I’m surprised or anything and I suppose I should be “happy” that Gamefreak at least a) tried to do something to reign in Dragon type’s braindead offensive bullshit and b) threw Poison type a bone, but what the fuck. It’s like Ice is the Farfetch’d type, at least defensively; I am ever so disappointed that Hawlucha isn’t an evolution of Farfetch’d like I thought it might be for split second just from the Fighting/Flying typing. Hell, it’s arguable that Ice isn’t even as great anymore offensively with Fairy moving in on its turf without the horrible weakness to Stealth Rock, more than one fucking resistance and an outright immunity even if Boltbeam coverage and such still exist.
Speaking of Stealth Rock, I’ll avoid ranting about it here at length, but seeing that Gamefreak seemingly didn’t decide to fix that and left it as the braindead “fix” that it is, ala Hidden Power but even worse, just completely put me off of buying a 3DS for this, at least presently. I mean, they at least fixed the weather bullshit that dominated Generation V, which I wasn’t around for, by limiting Drought, Drizzle and Sand Stream like they should have from the beginning–Snow Warning seems an unfortunate bit of collateral damage unless Hail got buffed in some way, which I doubt. So they’re telling us “gee, Stealth Rock is totally fine even though we gave you nothing else to answer it and even though it really should “logically” be countered by at least Gravity if it’s going to hit everyone”? Bullshit.
…Hmm…I guess that was still a bit of mini-rant, so I apologize. Still, if anyone has a list of changes or could point me to one, I’d be grateful even though it seems likely I’ll be getting the game itself any time soon.
Thanks in advance and all that.
P.S. I personally think most of the Mega forms look kinda stupid, but maybe they’ll grow on me. Regardless, I overall like the aesthetics of the 69 new Pokemon they added, especially compared to the Gen. V abominations I saw in passing, and I am man enough to admit that Skiddo, the unevolved pure Grass goat, is fucking adorable.
All they had to do was tweak it to where stealth rocks hit flying types only, just likes spikes hit only grounded pokes.
It’s the typing aspect that is worst aspect of the move. And saying losing 50% HP is good because it “fixes” Volcarona or some shit doesn’t cut it.
You know how I “fix” Volcarona and a lot of other “would be broken without SR” shit?
I punch it in the face. Hard. Then it dies. Can’t set up Quiver Dances if you’re dead.
EDIT: The Damned- I recall posting quite a bit on the various changes in the game during the release period… If you search my older posts circa mid October-November, quite a number of them are fairly informative and will help you get caught up.
Just avoid my angry rants, unless you have a lot of time/hate Smogon…
Stealth Rock only hitting flying types would hamper it to the point of almost uselessness, IMO, even if flying types are fairly common. The amount of Pokemon that take 50% damage from SR is not very high, but it does force a team to have to worry about SR if they have those Pokemon on their team. Spikes do more damage on average once they’re set up, which is why Spikes/WW Skarm is such a pain in the ass to deal with. Both entry hazards are fine.
i have never swept so many people like i did with volcarona, especially the bulky set
remove SR
set up quiver dance
prosper
heatran and blissey are the only things that could stop it at that point, this gen you can add goodra to the mix
dragonite was really freaking dumb in a SRless meta
the only thing an SRless meta did outside of being batshit crazy was at least moltres got to see some OU time
instead of listing everything, i’ll just link you to serebii posts on the changes
New Mechanics
New Egg Moves
Updated Attacks
New Breeding mechanics
you can find more on serebii if you look on the right side of the page, it’ll show you everything that’s new but i feel these would probably be a few of the most important ones
But you have to actually work to get Spikes to do that damage…
There is no reason for something as squishy as Weavile to lose 25% just for coming in because some asshat decided to make a hazard that does more damage based on type that only takes one turn to do so…
If you’re gonna do something that stupid, at least make it Electric-type so it could nerf the assholes that needed nerfing- the ubiquitous Water type, for example number one.
While it is true that full damage spikes require three total turns to set up, my point is that on average they will do far more damage to the average team than stealth rock ever will. In some cases, SR will be better than Spikes and vise versa. Hell, it only takes two Spikes to deal more damage than a x1 Stealth Rock, and Spikes will do the full damage regardless of resistances except to flying and levitate users.
I don’t really know why you would bring up Weavile into a debate about Stealth Rock since all Pokemon are not created equal. It’s not really Stealth Rock’s fault that Weavile has poor defensive stats on top of not so great typing. If you are worried about entry hazards, we all know you should probably run a Pokemon that can remove them, and removing entry hazards got buffed this game anyways.
Because I think its silly that a one-turn move that has been proven to severely limit your teambuilding options and/or forces you to run a counter for it or have your team crippled is fine, yet a Pokémon that allegedly severely limits your teambuilding options and/or forces you to run a counter for it or have your team crippled is a blight on the metagame and “has to go.”
Does no one else have a problem with this kind of hypocrisy, or is really just me?
I think it’s completely retarded in what is banned and what’s not.
That being said, Blaziken, Mega Kanga, and Mega Gengar are strong, but not batshit OP.
actually, having SR right now creates more options than it would removing them, removing SR forces the game to focus on dragonite and volcarona (which ends up also making heatran fucking everywhere)
there are many reliable options to take away SR, use one of the fucking 2498320423
Apples to oranges, IMO. For the sake of argument, let’s assume that Azumarill is the only counter for Blaziken, which essentially forces you to run Azumarill on your team at all times in fear of running into Blaziken. Now let’s apply this to Stealth Rock. Let me ask you this: how many abilities remove entry hazards, how well are they distributed, and how many good, strong Pokemon are there that can fit into a team using entry hazard removal moves? In other words, it’s not like you are limited to one Pokemon only if you’re scared of Stealth Rock. Alternatively, you could use a team that doesn’t have issues to Stealth Rock.
Try to step back and look at what you’re saying for a second, in regards to hypocrisy. You’re saying that it’s hypocritical that Pokemon like Blaziken and abilities/moves like Moody/Double Team are banned because it “limits team building” and then list plenty of ways to deal with them; on the other hand, you are arguing as if there are NOT plenty of ways to deal with Stealth Rock and that it does, in fact, “limits team building” to the point that’s just like the opposing side’s view of “ban Blaziken and evasion”.
Here is my mega evaluation so far, cause you know, I’m the greatest there ever was and I know all.
Since we are doing standard play, both Mega Mewtwos, Mega Blaziken, Mega Gengar, and Mega Kangaskhan will not be in this post as they are Uber.
Outside of the Mega Charizards, you do not build a team supporting them, it’s way easier to build a team with them supporting you. i do suggest making a team using a Mega Pokemon as the upside is way too awesome to pass up; but unless you use one of the Mega Charizards, do not try to focus around the Mega.
mega lucario is the best mega right now, it barely needs team support and can sweep without setting up, he’s got awesome coverage on top of amazing offensive stats, he’s crazy versatile as he can run a straight physical or special set or run mixed
Mega venusaur i consider the 2nd best mega out there, it needs like, no team support to be successful, he’s probably the 3rd best special wall in the game after blissey and ttar, he’s freaking amazing
mega medicham is a monster, the only reason you don’t see it more is because mega lucario outclasses it, they are very similar but mega lucario deals more damage and is faster, while also having the threat of going special, mega medicham is not a bad mega, he’s just entirely outclassed
mega zard X is a bigger threat than mega zard Y, after 1 DD, mega zard X runs through shit like a knife through butter, he doesn’t even have problems with 4MSS, dragon/fire stab combined with ground for coverage is amazing, he’s also surprisingly bulky and has a decent typing, his problem is that he does need support
mega zard Y is a huge threat, especially early game, he just has real problems with ttar (especially mega ttar) and of course blissey, he’s a huge threat that doesn’t need as much support as one would think but still needs suppport, he hits like a fucking truck though
mega manectric is dirrrrrrrrrrty, he’s fast and strong as hell, probably the best offensive pivot outside of genesect, and having intimidate is freaking awesome, i have yet to make a team with him as he’s frail as shit but i seriously underrated this guy at first, he’s a serious threat and should not be slept on
mega blastoise is a great spinner, what really hurts him is his lack of recovery and his he really needs his 4 attacks so you can’t run aqua ring, he’s a great offensive spinner that fits on teams that excadrill doesn’t, he’s outclassed by tentacruel on stall teams as a spinner, he’s bulky but not as bulky as one would think but he does get around all anti-spinners with water move/dark pulse and having aura sphere is a godsend of a coverage move
mega pinsir is fucking scary, he punches holes in things and has one of the strongest priority attacks in the game, flying/ground coverage is amazing in the neutral aspect, really only walled by levitating electric, rock, and steel types so he will obviously need some support but he’s a fucking monster with that crazy high base attack, fear this bug, he’s nasty
mega ttar is alright, he’s a better DD user and a better SR user than regular TTar due to the extra bulk, if you want a 4 attack set, AV ttar does it better, he’s definitely usable but it’s usually better to use the mega on something else
mega garchomp is a bulky wall breaker, he runs the feared chainchomp set much better than regular chomp does (thanks to taht awesome 120 base SpA), the loss of speed though really hurts the usefulness of regular chomp, he’s definitely real good against stall teams (better than regular chomp) but the other things chomp does well are usually too good to pass up (like a SD set or a scarf set)
mega gyarados has mold breaker, that’s about all it has over regular gyarados, it’s real good, but not usually worth the mega slot (if you lack a mega pokemon on your team, use him, he will still deal a lot of damage)
mega mawile is awesome, probably the best defensive typing in the game and has the highest attack right now (huge power with base 105 is grossly high), it has fucking amazing synergy with reuniclus and is the best pokemon you could use on a trick room team, once it sets up a SD, it runs train, it’s fucking awesome, use it, it also helps regular mawile has intimidate
mega absol is pretty good, the biggest problem is actually getting it to mega volve due to the extreme lack of bulk but once it’s megavolved, it’s a big threat and stops hazard users cold, it has great coverage and awesome speed, it needs a lot of support to work though, while mega absol is great, regular absol has nothing going for it except for sucker punch making it really a pain to use
mega banette has priority destiny bond and a crazy high attack stat…and that’s about it
mega scizor is a great defog user, up there with latias, it’s also a great swords dance user, it’s a real good mega with an awesome typing and great bulk but the difference between scizor and mega scizor isn’t usually worth the mega slot
mega aggron is bulky as fuck…but that’s about it, it doesn’t do much back thanks to having stab on a weak attacking type and no other high powered moves worth using (EQ is good but not strong enough), it’s really not that good but entirely usable
mega gardevoir is alright, pixelate hyper voice is disgustingly powerful, strong enough that even when resisted it does more than some neutral hits (like on steel types) that it honestly can run hyper voice/psychic or focus blast and be fine, the lack of physical bulk is the biggest let down though, entirely usable and has a niche as one of the only fairy types to use will-o-wisp
mega alakazam, mega abomasnow, mega aerodactyl, mega heracross, mega houndoom, and mega ampharos suck and it takes way too much team support to use these megas effectively, in mega alakazam’s case, it’s entirely outclassed by it’s regular form (thanks to magic guard), mega heracross probably has the biggest upside of this bunch but it’s still not very good, i would avoid these if you want to make a really good team
See what I did there?
Lol. Like Heatran wasn’t already everywhere due to all the Genesect, Talonflame, and Scizor U-Turning everywhere…
Fixed this for you as well, buddy.
Re-read what you just typed. Then read my posts again and see what I’m getting at here: I ALREADY KNOW all the ways to deal with Stealth Rock, just like I know all the ways to deal with everything else, because I play the game, can take a loss, and use it as a LEARNING EXPERIENCE.
I don’t throw up my hands, proclaim everything that beats me as “broken,” and go lobbying for its removal, because when I lose, I put on my big boy pants and go looking for ways to not lose like that again.
If more people did that, the metagame wouldn’t have gone straight to the Talonflame, Goddamn Washing Machine, Heatran & T-Tar show, because solutions would have been discovered, counters to those counters, and so on…
That is what healthy metagamers do-- Counter the counter to the counter and back again in order to stay one step ahead of the competition… Now, its just a bunch of whiny bitches crying for patches and nerfs everytime they get stomped by some unfamiliar shit.
These dudes are really trying to justify a metagame in which Blaziken is banned, but motherfucking Genesect and Deoxys are running around… Is this real life?
Did you really just answer my post with edited quotes? SMH man. I’m trying to be respectful here and you’re being pretty rude about it. 
Guess I’m done here!
there is a difference between 12% usage and 35% usage
this is so wrong i can’t even begin to describe it
this post is so idiotic, i can’t counter argue it without making you even madder
seriously, i don’t know why some people claim me to be the thick headed one when he refuses to accept that some things just don’t have counters, and that a game with 429482304932842903482490382394320943284 things to use is impossible to balance so yes, some shit will be broken
I’m not trying to insult you or be rude… But are you telling me you and Mood really can’t see the logical fallacy in claiming that something with as long of a spoiler’s worth of counters like Evasion is broken/over-centralizing, but something like Stealth Rock that can only be truly stopped by killing the Stealth Rock setter as otherwise they can just keep laying it/do it later, despite your Defog/Rapid Spin/Taunt/Magic Coat/Magic Bounce usage, does obscene damage to something as frail as Butterfree, and only requires ONE TURN OF SETUP, is not?
The dreaded Evasion Abuse at the very least requires at least 2-3 uses of Double Team to see any real benefit, and Minimize users are about as transparent as Blaziken or Swagkey, and easy to spot. The Sneaky Pebbles only need one turn and despite a couple of usual suspects, you never really know who on the opponent’s team will be trying to set them.
But that’s not even my point. The actual point I was trying to make is that it is at the very least logically fallacious and at the worst, downright dishonest to claim one thing as broken under a certain set of criteria, but then when something else meets that SAME SET OF CRITERIA, it gets met with a handwave and claims of “It’s not broken! Your team is just terrible/Get better noob!”
That is wrong… and it is 85% of the reason why I can’t take that other place and anything Mood says seriously.
I may be many things: annoying, arrogant, loud, brash, a troll, and hyperbolic, but I’m a straight-shooter-- My position doesn’t require me to play intellectual Twister to justify it, because it simply is what it is.
It’s not even about the damn Evasion clause anymore… It’s about the dishonest tactics and fallacious positions used to defend it. Somebody tell me I’m wrong…
i don’t think you understand how freaking good defog is this generation, it’s a huge reason why hazards aren’t a mainstay in the metagame right
outside of mamo, suicide leads don’t exist
sticky web? worthless
spikes? almost non existent since almost every defogger flies over them
seriously, defog has had a huge impact
also, smogon had a SRless ladder last gen, the only pokemon who actually changed tiers was moltres, weavile moved up 1%, the rest actually got less usage
clearly, SR is not a problem and creates more balance
evasion is stopped by moves that would otherwise be useless, only defog, aura sphere, and technician boosted perfect accuracy moves are of any worth, the other moves suck outside of evasion
OHKO moves ruin the entire idea of counters and fuck up everything, they are in no way balanced
moody has nothing to stop it outside of haze, whirlwind, roar, and clear smog and even then, the most prominent user, smeargle, can spore that haze user and fuck you over, it’s fucking broken and the only thing that had a unanimous vote yes to ban (for the record, mega kanga had a 60% vote yes, mega gengar had a 52% vote yes for ban), moody is the most broken thing ever released, stop trying to bring it in
so what if it’s a long list, how many of those options are actually worth a shit? roughly 3 or 4 of them and a lot of them are only good on shitty pokemon
butterfree was never viable…NEVER, removing SR actually makes it worse