wat
i think he’s trying to communicate
So I’m taking saltybets on Po vs Mood.
What you do mean wat? I don’t think it’s hard to comprehend.
Let me translate: You’re too fucking stubborn to argue with since you refuse to consider that maybe just maybe you’re wrong regardless of the calculations because you’re basing a lot of what you say on theory and situational setups. So I reiterate again, fuck you and the DS you play on because you won’t budge on new ideas.
It is not like you budge either Infernoman. At least i saw calculations out of Mood I mean I haven’t followed that closely but I know no one has put up any information to make me realize Blaziken, mega gar, and mega khan are healthy to keep in the OU meta. Also Evasion just makes shit really random and evasion is really well distributed and the moves to stop evasion are not. If you want to use it fine, but I won’t be a part of that.
Well I think recent developments might slant the spread…
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-73216037
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-73219780
What am I not budging on? I’m open to anything…I believe that that like fighting games/FPS it boils down to the better player. You can have OP anything or use stupid easy setups but whoever can out play will probably win. I never do calulations and haven’t since White Shadow and others have been making pokemon threads since Gen 3. Furthermore I don’t reconize the OU metagame. I just play. Granted I do see what is banned from reg play but nothing above 2 tiers anymore. As far as Evasion is considered, again I state that While I’m not in favor of it, if I had to play against it, I will prepare for it and can handle it.
IF we ban evasion let’s make the game just pure skill and ban hax setups like sniper ability and super luck while we’re at it.
Your stance is “anything goes.” For the most part and that is a stance in which you haven’t budged on.
I am fine with people using non BP sets on blaziken or even mega khan. I really don’t want to play against anyone that uses mega gengar properly holy shit. Again feel free to use evasion, but if you use against me you get a free win because I will just leave. It does not come down to the player just blind luck. Again you may say use aura sphere or some shit but that is like mega luc and togekiss? Ya that sounds fucking awful. I realize there are randoms in this game but for the most part they are for balance reasons (crits suck), but I don’t think evasion is properly balanced in this game especially with shit like moody.
Sooo…I should be more…restrictive? What do you want me to be?
instead of shooting down everything i do because “it’s the smogon way”, try to see why i think the pokemon is stupid and try to find another response other than, “i can beat it with pikachu, it’s definitely not broken” or something
An argument with you is basically like devout Christian vs an Atheist. Let’s just agree that we won’t ever see things the other way.
The argument of “I once beat Blaziken with Pikachu” is not solid evidence of Blaziken not being broken. You can’t call a one and done evidence, really.
In either case, FGs =/= Pokemon. Completely different games with different mechanics, so the mentality of “anything goes” cannot exist in a vacuum like that. It’s not like “anything goes” in FGs anyways, since rules that exist beyond the game are usually made on a game by game basis by the community itself. For example, if you want to compare a FG character to a Pokemon, it doesn’t really work. Even if top tiers are very strong in a certain game, there are so many variables within the game that doesn’t usually propel characters into tournament banned states (there are exceptions of course). Pokemon, however, is complex in its simplicity, but the simplicity therein can often limit counters, like counters to evasion being not only not necessarily great skills themselves, but also poorly distributed.
I would like you to give a good reason to why you believe the argued points should stay unbanned. Other than giving fighting game references which is pretty damn different than pokemon. For example just because I beat my friends ST Akuma with Cammy doesn’t mean Akuma is balanced. It means my friend really sucks. Use your head a bit here and look at post bank khan really hard.
The reason certain things are banned is not because we want everyone to not be able to play certain pokemon as much as it is we want people to be able to play a much larger pool of pokemon.
I don’t want my post to be about picking a side I simply want you to list valid reasons other than I don’t believe in using stats. If that is the case then find a different game to talk about balance in because pokemon is all stats and numbers.
Lets keep the more personal attacks out of this as well on both sides its not necessary.
You forget fighting games DO use numbers as well. We measure frame data primarily when it comes to seeing what has priority and what could beat what. That is why I use fighting game references. FPS use similar data as well. Time to kill, Range, Bullet surface penetration, headshot multipliers and damage reduction just to name a few things. Basically all these competitive games use numbers because that’s what they’re built on. Mood is attacked cause he’s the most vocal person who objects to what we’re trying to establish as anything BUT smogon. It’s hard to not associate away from it cause of the very same style of arguing and numbers he presents is exactly how they speak. Not that it’s a bad thing but we all butt heads without ever agreeing to a comprise so we just talk in circles.
How about you use your head and read what I post. Just because I don’t provide coherent numbers doesn’t mean I don’t respect what the pkmn in question is capable of. I honestly don’t have the time to provide all the numbers for personal reasons. Furthermore banning one pkmn doesn’t truly solve the metagames issue of something over centralizing. A pokemon goes, so now what? we just move on to the next best thing. I have said this a while ago and I REALLY am tired of having to explain my reasoning. just look up my old posts. I’m sick of arguing this. I don’t care if you picks sides or not but I say once more that my argument for evasion is while as annoying as it can be, if I had to fight against it, I can stand my ground.
In the meantime I’m just going to make teams on the simulator until I can rehack my old teams into XY
Alright I’ll agree to it, just let me know when yall are having it.
Also, I want to try evasion a couple of matches, both sides can use it, anyone interested?
I still think Mega Kanghaskhan is mega busted, but Mega Gengar and Mega Blaziken are allowed.
Any takers?
EDIT: I was thinking about what one of yall said about the ban of evasion being one of those self fulfilling prophecies and how it could work if people actually considered evasion when team building.
DOUBLE EDIT: Sorry meant that Mega Kanga and Moody are allowed also, sorry if the wording of this post is misleading.
I’m available all day after 1:00 PM PST if you want to do it today, i’m also available monday.
I could explain why frame data is quite a different set of number evaluations, but it is irrelevant so I will end that here.
I was just trying to understand your reasoning or see if you had one because I have read your posts. Maybe I missed one, but I have been following this thread and I can’t get any solid info against the bans other than I beat this guy using X once. I guess my vote on the subject is ban evasion and as far as SRK battles are concerned I think we should ban BP blaziken sets and Mega Gengar. Mega Gengar because if played right he has no counters which is ridiculous and BP blaziken because otherwise all my teams have to have azumarill in them to stop the BP.
banning BP on blaziken is dumb when he’s the only pokemon who makes it broken, it’s just a stupid ban, either ban the whole poke or don’t ban him at all
Only problem is, that’s a complex ban. You either ban Blaziken and all his forms or don’t ban him at all(similar to fighting game bans). That’s like saying Akuma is allowed to be used in Super Turbo as long as he doesn’t use air fireball.
Forcing a player to artificially handicap himself with a character/pokemon is outright dumb.
i think this is one rule from smogon we can all agree on though, either ban the whole thing or don’t it at all
the only exception was drizzle + swift swim last gen, and well, that was needed cause it was fucking absurd how good that was