This is an awesome writeup, thanks a ton! I’m really looking forward to more tech like that in the future.
@thread
So i’m in a serious team crisis for like one month now, switching around alot between viper/dante/strider, viper/vergil/x (mostly dante), and stuff like that. I try to re-pick up the game and rethink what’s powerful in the long run and what fits my style. After playing a fellow viper/doom/ammy player offline in quite a bunch of matches, i was already considering re-picking up ammy and played around a bit with viper/mags/ammy (marlin’s old team, doom would be the obvious choive now, but i hate him with a passion…). Now after seeing what marlinpie did to champ and lots of other players at SS, i am sure i want to give it a serious shot. The reason for picking magnus as the 2nd one is simple: i like the character, he’s strong, fun as hell to play, and probably the one in the game that benefits the most from ammy besides viper and doom. Obviously disruptor lost the ability to relaunch for viper, but it is still able to extend vipers combos (like basically almost every other assist in the game) and the other benefits like clearing the screen, making blockstrings safe and helping with mixups are still present. Now i just wanna know what you guys are thinking, i would appreciate any input on that topic.
@gottnoskill
Sweet writeup. I’ve been using a similar OS for Doom and Vergil so I’m pretty sure that this may work well on most divekick characters (not Trish or Dante. She’s able to special cancel her divekick. Dante can special cancel helm breaker).
Trying to make Viper/Strange/Ammy work. Obviously everyone knows about Viper/Ammy stuff, but I’m more concerned with Viper/Strange. I’ve always felt that a strong point character in front of Strange is the best way to play him. Basically I’m gonna try to use Viper to open people up then put Strange in for cleanup duty with Ammy’s THC or whatever. As long as I can land a hit, I can easily convert into a ToD since Strange’s meterless damage is ridiculous. The fact that SoV doesn’t DHC well with any of Viper’s supers is irrelevant for how much damage (and meter build) he can do solo.
Off an EX Thunder Knuckle crumple I can raw tag Strange and get up to 900k+ meterless using the Burn Kick assist as an extension, likewise with her FA crumples. Funny how the crumple duration changes if you did it off a counter hit, though. That’s what I’ve noticed, at least. If I try to beat Bionic Arm with EX TK, then raw tag Strange, cr.M into Impact Palm won’t connect but a well-timed SoV after his entry pose still works and leads into a free dead character every time.
Oh, and Bolts assist is good for neutral or whatever. Yeah. I basically use the thing the same way Marlin does with Plasma Beam but I’m sure you can sneak in a quick high/low in between the two delayed shots.
Yeah bolts has kinda slow start up but luckily Viper is probably the best character in the game for using meterless options to cover her assist and shut down the opponent’s assist. Having Strange behind Viper is very strong because it gives her another options for disrespecting pressure especially if she has 2 or more meter. Now she gets a DHC into a homing pillar super that blows up assists or a projectile counter super that takes up most of the screen on activation.
Can you do any raw tag stuff between Viper and Doom?
I can try, sure. Just won’t be as strong as Strange’s or like straight up confirm through pushblock with Doom but it’ll work, I bet. Done it before with Impact Palm. Normally Strange doesn’t get up to 1.1m with a Vishanti ender, but what’s really nutty is you actually get those numbers if you do the raw tag stuff from EX TK or FA. Shit is retarded lol. I love it, it’s like Strange finally has a purpose: killing with style. Burn Kick assist also helps immeasurably with his stupid hit confirms. I can do cr.L, cr.L, st.M, cr.H (low hit, call Viper), Impact Palm xx Teleport H, j.H ~ Impact Palm and that goes right into Impact Palm loops.
I think personally this would be a strong team. I always thought Coldstar goes well with Strange even though im ass with the character. Bolts assist is a stupid good assist for combos with Viper. I don’t know how the properties of it work but try working in Strange assist into SJ forward heavy burn kick. Tiger knee the burnkick and you will probably get a free combo on hit. Burn kick is a stupid hit box and the heavy version from the air is 17 frame start-up. Which is quick as hell for a burning kick.
Cold Star is indeed one of Strange’s best assists as you can get two teleport crossups immediately after calling the assist. Ammy’s THC is one of the best for Strange as well for how well it opens people up, especially midscreen.
What are you thinking for Bolts and the Burn Kick thing though? First hit of Bolts is the one that allows you to extend combos, while the second will cause the opponent to flip out since it doesn’t have that much hitstun (I think as much as a regular H attack). First hit has ridiculous hitstun and although it doesn’t cause any sort of knockdown, it allows Viper to relaunch ever after a long combo so long as you can cover the startup by delaying your air series.
I especially like how it forces people to duck, and the gap in between the shots allows for a quick j.L, j.L or j.S tridash overhead to open people up. It’s great for Viper’s neutral approach too. It’s sort of an anti-air beam so it’s good for moving in the air.
I just tested out the setup and it works. Tigerknee Burnkick with you super jumping forward. so Strange assist~ 2149~H. The ~ being a plink type of thing. You want to be in the air before you press Heavy. and want to start the strange assist before or as soon as you start the TK motion.
The thing with Viper’s air burn kick is they are extremely unsafe on block and there is a very narrow window for you to link the combo with her Heavy air burn kick. Her light one in the air can be combo’d for free without assists but it is still unsafe and somewhere in the late 30’s for frames to start up?
Anyways the Strange assist will protect her approach with the TK SJF BK and once you connect you will recover in time before the second hit of Bolts hit and start an easy combo. You should have the character somewhere above you where you can do a rep of box dash and then launch for the rest of the combo.
This is a setup I use frequently in matches and I have never been happy birthday’d on it and you can’t really react with a super on it either since BK is so fast. The only time it is ever really punishable is a very VERY small window where you can throw Viper if they somehow chicken block the BK and throw before bolts or the assist gets blocked or hit. Probably 3-4 frames. Doable but rare.
I don’t believe any other vipers use this setup that I have seen. I always stress if you can find a way to get TK SJF burnkick into your game you should. It’s vipers only real wtf random factor and goes into the category as hard to punish like random beserker slashes. It’s hard to pull off but once you get the motion down its fairly easy and once you master it you cover 3/4 of the screen and drop off a nice hit big ass hit box for them to block or get hit by. + if they’re on the ground its an overhead and it crosses up easily.
No problem I want to see what you come up with with Dr. Strange and Viper. I like Dr. Strange but never took the time to learn him properly… and I also like Ammy but i never thought it was the best assist for Viper compared with others so yup! Do work! I like seeing different teams out there with Viper. Her assists that she needs for her neutral game are limited and I’m always trying to learn new neutral game with Viper even though I feel like I’ve reached my max potential with her on that aspect. Now I’m just working on character specific counters to common setups.
Question, what was it that made Viper and Magnus so strong in Vanilla, and are they still viable and strong now? Now it’s all about Viper and Doom, what happen, is what I’m curious about.
This, plus TAC’s are now pretty meh. In vanilla you could get 1.1 million off an exchange to mag easily and stay meter positive, even off a side exchange in the corner.
Pretty much. Think Cammy instant foot dive in SSF4. Except the motion is exceptionally more tighter. basically you’re doing 214 like any QCB motion and going to neutral and all the way to 9. So D.DB.B.UF~ATK. If you do it right you will see super jump animation and viper hurl herself across the screen. You want to see superjump animation too otherwise the properties change on BK and you won’t be able to combo.
Viper/trish/ironman. should work like marlinpies team. viper can relaunch with trish assist and a lock down assist from ironmans repuls blast assist. havnt tested it yet. wondering if viper can combo with ironmans assist.
just picked up viper and dorm yesterday, been using viper (seismo)/dorm (dark hole)/task (horiz. arrows, because taskmaster is my security blanket). anybody have any suggestions for that team, or for the middle character? i’ve been using well spaced dark holes to try and set up a FA, but it’s finicky both in timing and spacing. i tried Iron Man, but i can’t regularly pull his combos off and I hate spamming unibeam, and i don’t really care for doom (everybody uses him). is it time to start learning dante and maybe jam session?