Wait, what? I haven’t heard anything about this… I can’t find anything on the front page either!
Seth Killian apparently was talking about the game somewhere recently and said that Zero is the best character in the game. Or something to that effect. I’m not sure if that’s going to allude to some last minute changes or not but we’ll see.
I’m having some trouble handling Nova backed up by Frank West’s shopping cart. All of Viper’s normals seem to get stuffed, so I end up relying on air grabs and EX seismo, or bk feinting around while calling Doom missiles… What should I be aiming to do in this matchup? The team I run is Viper(burn kick)/Modok(blaster)/Doom(missiles).
I hate how I have around 800 games or so with Viper online, and I am still struggling with what I should be doing with Viper half the time. And yes, I’ve read through all these threads lol
Well I think the general thing is that even the toppest of players still have a long way to go with how to actually control the character in the neutral. A character that has to rely on projectiles for their neutral (like Dr.Strange) is generally just going to have issues against the big hit box characters. Characters that can enact rushdown that kills easily and OS throw her out of her focus attack easily (Zero) are huge problems. Especially at the start of the round where meters are low.
I would just try as much as you can to keep seismos on the screen till you get close enough to confirm off of one that hits into a combo. I’m still learning her also so I can’t really give too much past that. Vajra assist has been making it a lot easier though to land a seismo with vajra creating a hard knockdown off the seismo and going into relaunch combos. Makes her neutral game a lot scarier without having to get too involved execution wise with her.
I’ll definitely work on my seismo game some more… I honestly don’t seismo as much as I should. I’ve also tried learning Strider multiple times, but I really hate his playstyle, and I don’t want to just derp around with lvl 3 xf.
I don’t know why I didn’t think of this until now, but maybe using Modok’s barrier assist would be really good at helping control the pace of the game against rushdown characters, since I barely use the blaster assist anyways.
I’m currently convinced that Viper’s worst match up by a significant amount is Firebrand with Akuma assist, I think this may be as bad as 3.5-6.5. >.<
I had no idea you got that much frame advantage out of it. (I only started playing the game in January and never touched vanilla.) Those three little posts of yours just made me hop into practice mode and soon realize how much of a goldmine this stuff is. The mixups and pressure viper (and my team) gets out of fadc are straight up retarded, I almost feel like I’ve been playing the game wrong up until now. I have a feeling my (already not so shabby) win-ratio is going to go up significantly at future events; I don’t know why I never thought of this myself but either way, huge thanks are in order!
I’ve decided to take on a Viper team as my next task; learning her is going to be the most daunting and intimidating part. I sometimes wonder why I don’t see tons more Vipers in play before I try her out and become completely lost. There is a welcome basket full of stuff to know, learn and master (and I thought Jill was tough), yet she is clearly amazing. It looks like a lot of fun, but I’m going to need a lot of help and direction.
Before I get too into Viper’s play, I want to start from the beginning by asking in this thread about general team construction. I’m assuming the ideal construction revolves entirely around her so she’s in the front, but I have no idea where to go from here. What should I be looking for in assists for Viper, and should I worry about which assist she has on?
I think it’s safe to say that Viper is pretty assist dependant. In terms of team construction and assists, I think important points are:
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Having a lockdown assist to run mixups and/or unblockable setups. Stuff like Cold Star, Jam Session and Hidden Missiles are the most obvious. Viper can’t bully opponents with broken normals or teleports, so you need some assist cover to hold them in place/limit their movement, and then run mixups safely. Beams like Unibeam or projectiles like Taskmasters H. Arrows and Dante’s Weasel Shot are strong choices as well.
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Having assists that compliment your Seismo and laser game. Vajra is a good example; controlling superjumpers and giving you hard knockdown Seismo’s into potential dead opponents. Jam Session allows you to control superjump heights and pushes opponents away so you can zone them out with Seismo’s again. Spencers Slant Shot can also give you an easy time to convert Seismo’s into death.
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Safe DHC’s to get Viper out. If your next character has a safe DHC, let’s say Devil Trigger, then this allows Viper to get out for free in difficult situations whenever she has 2 bars. Emergency Combination has a shitton of invulnerability.
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Relaunches. You typically want to have at least 1 assist you can do relaunch combo’s with. This will basically save you precious meter while giving you easy big damage combo’s. You need all the meter you can get to threaten your opponents with EX Seismo.
That’s from the top of my head, I probably missed some other important stuff.
Any tips on which Trish assist is better for Viper? I feel like I could use Low Voltage as a ghetto plasma beam for help getting in. But Peek-a-boo is just so dirty.
viper doesn’t have much of a left-right mixup, which peekaboo is more or less built for, so you’re better off going with low voltage which will help viper get in, and also work in a corner relaunch combo.
Call assist, ADDF behind isn’t bad for a left/right mix up no?
Oh and after watching this…
[media=youtube]Ylw495ooTZg[/media]
What you guys think Marlin Pie could have done more specifically with Viper? I think some of the times when he was getting hard pressured he could have tried to use focus attack. It’s impossible to focus attack Zero because his normals are active for so long (so you always end up focusing his sword). Against Task they’re not active as long so I feel like he could have thrown it in sometimes. Taskmaster makes it tough to use seismos because shield skills backed with doom beam = seismo gets absorbed into you dead.
Maybe some more lasers when he had him long range? Dunno.
What do you guys think is the best Viper/Zero combination?
I was thinking it was between Zero/Viper/Amaterasu or Viper/Zero/Dante. Viper/Zero/Strider doesn’t really have an horizontal assist, and Vajra is not that good for Zero. I think Viper/Zero/Dante is the cheapest thing in this game, but I wanted to know what do you guys think because you are the Viper experts (I just started trying her out).
1:29 I don’t know what kind of relaunch he was going for there. Maybe something for optimal damage because hitstun off a throw is so low, but you can do just fine with building a meter at the state he was off a regular throw combo and DHC twice to kill Task.
1:35 You have already seen this two times but Josh has gone for a no hit-confirm safe combo starter. Shield skills into launcher+doom beam assist. He goes into it a third time here. I was thinking especially after seeing viper out of block stun there would have been an EX.TK. I was thinking that as soon as I had seen Doom come out on the screen as an assist. Happy Birthday. Game Over.
1:52 good throw set-up. Something hes conditioned to do. If you don’t have strider on your team PLEASE LEARN THIS! With strider your corner mix-up game is too godlike and you can catch in so many different guesses and different looks.
2:20 Something that Kyo needs to do is work on the BK/feint combo converter in the air. It would have been lights out for doom right there if he converted.
2:32 Seismo seismo seismo had about 3 for sure opportunities here for getting damage and making Josh have to work for his opening.
3:30 I like what he tried here, and that was take advantage of the block stun. I see Kyo didn’t think Josh would AG in the air so he went for his SJ dash down high/low mix-up. But the thing I always look out for in this game is if there is a downside to a mix-up when someone can mash a throw then I don’t do it.
3:45 Nothing in particular wrong with his viper play here, but he seemed to try and advance guard and hit the ground the moment he pressed the buttons. At least thats what I see. Dead Viper
5:30 Something that happened here which I liked about his start is he went for the tech and SJ’ed immediately. AWESOME! This is the safest thing you can do to get Viper free. Something that I really haven’t done but is good if your starting the game and you think they’re going for a ground throw + assist is do a backthrow on start and EX.TK into X-factor or the safer option EX.seismo and try and juggle both of them. You are taking a big risk at the beginning of the game to do this but if you are certain they will throw+assist then do it and murder 2 characters in 7 seconds.
One thing I wanted to follow up on this is when he tri-dashed down he mis-judged the spacing on his cr.M and got blown up for it by st.M. What Kyo did is a good tactic if you are in range to get a quick low in as you hit the ground. Viper’s cr.M isn’t deceptive in range but catches people off-guard if they’re not paying attention or want to counter attack. Kyo did it a little too far away for it to be good and got smacked. As seen at 5:39 he does it again here but he cr.M as a punish.
5:35 Little bit harder to recognize here, but he had another opportunity at a Happy Birthday. I personally would have taken this opportunity and EX.TK X-factored to murder character 1 and also get Doom in the process. The one thing you never EVER want to do against Viper is jump back and shoot dem projectiles when shes that close. Here is something Viper players need to realize. When your opponents point character does something that Ex.TK can beat AND you see the assist start to creep its head and stand on the screen. BLOW THEM THE FUCK UP! Unless its an invincible assist and starts on frame 1 as the assist is vulnerable Viper will always win this battle.
5:45 This doesn’t happen often but when the opponent doesn’t advance guard you and you feint your normals you can make them guess what comes next.
In this case he made Josh panic and go for an easy hit. Go into another cr.M just a few frames after you feint and confirm into a M.TK. This is a good frame trap for those looking to mash something in between a blockstring
5:50 nice blocking up until the blotched super. “He can throw that.” commentator said it all. If you didn’t mind trading and are looking for the ultimate punish you could have EX.TK and possibly traded a few arrows, walk up and combo. Throw is my go to option for situations that don’t necessarily happen but you know will work.
7:50 next match started out zoning. Push task into a corner and do 3/4 screen seismo’s so he has to come in. Laser is good but not the best option in most cases when you’re in range for a seismo.
8:00 If you can make your opponent think they they have to block on the ground and they feel confident in advance guarding the first hit go for the throw. In this case I would have done OS throw-dash into OS air throw-Bk/feint. This double OS is fucking awesome for Viper. If you catch them dashing backwards and your throw misses you will dash. When you jump you will immediately do a j.H which is like 6 frames? basically instant overhead on the ground. You will BK/feint and you have the ability to dash down immediately and do another j.L. Your only problem here is even if they get hit with the j.H instant overhead they can jump up and throw you before your j.L comes out as you’re coming down. Its a very small window but it can be done. If you want to make this COMPLETELY safe then do an assist on the OS throw-dash so that you can protect yourself and get an easy hit-confirm into a combo off your instant overhead. I will still do this Double OS naked because I’ve yet to see someone throw me off of it because they’re like WTF I got hit? then flash from BK/feint and then another overhead
Half of my assessment. + tips on how to stop/improve/tech for situations. I don’t want to type anymore but i’ll finish the rest later.
can you use magneto’s beam assist to get a relaunch like you would with doom or iron man?
it feels like those beams hit multiple times while erik’s only hits once… so even if it was possible the timing would be tight. anyone know for sure?
Nice writeup, gottnoskill, a lot of useful things in there.
The one thing I don’t agree with is part of your OS, I’ve found that instant overhead H gets thrown quite consistently and I find it easy to react to myself.
I guess it depends on the player but if you can time an assist along with it its essentially a really safe double overhead mix-up.
Hey guys, new C. Viper player here, but I really like the way she plays a lot.
I’ve got team concerns, so far I have:
C. Viper (Seismo)/ ??? /Wesker (Samurai Edge Low)
I don’t know who to choose for the middle spot. I’ve tried experimenting with Vergil, but I don’t really like him too much and I find that his Rapid Slash moves the opponent too far away for C. Viper to begin her mixups. All I know is that I want someone with a horizontal assist, who could use the low assist from Wesker to extend combos to fill up that middle spot. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
I’ve been playing around with Ironman (Unibeam), he benefits form Samurai Edge and Burn Kick for combo extension. Plus a BnB from Viper into 623+AA with Ironman is about ~1mil.
I like Strider for Zero, it makes his zoning even more oppressive.