So trying to get a viper team together and currently im running Trish/Viper/Chris (Peekabo,Burning Kick, Gun Fire)
Now Im doing some reading and I see that Trish and Viper can set up an unblockable with round harvest but Chris’s Gun fire which Ive been using as horizontal coverage for the whole team dosent seem to work very well as a lockdown …
I don’t really want to change my team if its decent enough but is there any more cool Trish Viper synergy I missed or any general advice for my team?
Besides that, i’d suggest changing the order to viper/trish/x. Benefits are better dhc’s, option to get viper out safely, and nasy setups with emergency combination on block dhc into round harvest, tag viper back in, free unblockable into combo. Also viper gets more out of trish assist wise than the other way around.
This is about right. In order to make you less sad about us ruining your team synergy ideas, let me explain a bit further.
EDIT: You’ve got me theorizing all over the place, and now I’m mad hyped over Viper/Trish. I’m going to go off on some theory ranting here. If you want a TL;DR version just say so and I’ll make a new post. Sorry!
What Trish Gets on Point
I don’t know much about Trish, but from what I do know, this is what she’d get out of being on point.
Assists
None of Viper’s assists are going to help trish much outside of combos. There is, of course, burn kick unblockable stuff, but these types of things tend to be more situational than anything due to the assist’s slow speed and lack of invincibility. It’s not going to be any staple of your play by any means. Chris’ gun is going to help with her keep-away, which is good. Always nice to be able to control the ground better, especially with a character like her that’s not amazing at it, but she’ll likely have this whether she’s on point or not.
DHCs
DHCing from Trish to Viper isn’t going to be much fun. Unless it’s in the corner, I just see it being a difficult mess trying to figure out how to get that to work. I don’t know, maybe something with round harvest? I don’t know how DHC with round harvest works, but even if it does happen, it’s not exactly the most damaging super to be using.
Meter Management
Does Trish build good meter? I wouldn’t know. I do know that she likes to use it though. Whether or not she does, I’m sure she’d prefer to come into the field with more than a single bar, though I have seen point Trish’s doing pretty decently. My guess would be that’s it’s not bad, but it’s not optimal. That being said, Viper is likely going to be coming in with a bit more meter, which is fine and dandy, and she can definitely make good use of it, but she doesn’t NEED it to do well. If meter didn’t exist, Viper would probably be a low-B-high-C-tier character in my opinion, whereas Trish would probably be closer to D tier. Just speculation on something weird people don’t think about a lot, feel free to jump on me about this.
Unblockables
If you have Trish on point, then you can set up some pretty amazing unblockables with viper by round harvest > hard tag > focus attack. You just need to have the meter. It’s pretty solid after killing a Character to throw out a round harvest and hard tag Viper in for a free mixup, or maybe even full focus attack. You might even be able to get some Burn Kick assist high-low unblockables, but again, these are situational.
What Viper Gets on Point
By herself, Viper is a meh character that, in theory, has a lot of potential, but has some serious flaws that cause her to get totally shut down. EX moves cover this great, but they would make her such a horrible meter whore that she’d run out of steam fast. This is why a lot of less experienced Viper players like to use her as a meter-whoring anchor. While viable, this does not allow viper to live to her full potential, as she loses a lot of the mixups and craziness she’s allowed on point with assists.
Assists
**To maximize Viper’s ability to play she needs two things: Horizontal coverage assist, and AA/danger zone covering assist. Her danger zone is the spot directly in front of her, and up above her. She has problems here, as she has no reliable AntiAir, and her normals are pretty crappy, so she’s not good at face-to-face combat. These two things are why so many Viper mains rave about Dante’s Jam Session as an assist for viper, along with its lockdown capabilities. **You’ve got horizontal covered by chris, and potentially AA/danger zone coverage in Trish’s peekaboo/floor trap. This is actually a pretty damn good set up, but if you put trish on point and she dies, Viper no longer has that AA/danger zone coverage, something that can make a world of difference in certain matchups. Conversely and as previously mentioned, Trish loses virtually nothing when Viper is lost, minus maybe some damage if you’ve worked her into your combos.
Chris’ gun is great for helping Viper’s horizontal ground control, something that, while in theory not completely necessary, is very hard for Viper to control by herself. Trust me, my current team of Viper/Dante(Jam Session)/Strider(Vajra) has no ground controlling assists. I thought I’d be fine, but I’m finding it very hard to deal with characters with a lot of ground control like Wesker. It can also be used as a crossup tool, and while hard to confirm off of, can definitely still do so if you’re in the right position. But like Trish, whether she’s on point or middle she’s still going to get the benefit of this assist.
I’m not sure whether you should use peekaboo or the floor trap, just because I don’t know exactly how they work. However, they both cover her weak spot above and in front of her. Peekaboo doesn’t reach as high, but covers the area in front of her better and is easier to confirm off of should the opponent get hit. It has the issue of not reaching very high, however, and a Super Jump will scale it unhindered. IN reality, however, this makes absolutely no difference. You get a free troll face when your opponent feels all smug about getting over your defense, and then you press two buttons and end up on the other side of the trap, reseting the situation and rewarding you with free chip from seismos depending on the character as they reach the ground. While the floor trap reaches higher, it tends to whiff anyways, so I’d imagine peekaboo would be better.
These aren’t as lockdownish nor as offensive as some of her other assists used for AA, but have a very interesting trait of lasting longer and staying in one place. This unique ability to work around your AA assist makes it very versatile, sacrificing hitbox size and surprise for interesting tactics. The fact they see it coming and won’t be surprised by it means they won’t risk jumping in as much, giving you more seismo zoning + chip keepaway. You can also be sneaky when your opponent decides to jump in anyways. They’ll almost certainly jump in blocking as to not get hit by the assist. Jump through it and grab them. Or just dash forward and cross them up, so they get hit anyways. Then trollface.
As mentioned earlier, you lose a lot more by losing trish when viper comes in than you do the other way around.
DHCs
DHCing from Viper to Trish is super easy, no matter which level 1’s you’re using. Viper does a lot of damage, so chances are it will be for the kill. If that’s not the case, a late DHC nto round harvest followed by a hard tag back into viper is a really good mixup, or even unblockable (do you have time?).
Meter Management
Now, with Viper on point, it should be noted that you’re going to want to be playing a battery viper, which means dropping any EX moves you currently have in your BnB combo. This may sound saddening, but you can get a LOT of damage in by using your assists for relaunches/extra TK at the beginning/combo enders. This will also allow you to build a lot of meter in the process. When played like this, Viper is arguably one of the best (and some would argue THE best) batteries in the game. And I’m sure trish will really appreciate coming in with extra meter.
Unblockables
You don’t have any real lockdown assists that will last long enough to get you the FA unblockable. You can use Chris assist for mixups, but that’s about it. However, you can get that same unblockable you could do with trish on point in the right situation. After finishing off an opponent with Burst Time, just head to the lab and find the right timing to DHC into round harvest, then hard tag into viper again as per normal. I believe that depending on the matchup, that’s a free incoming unblockable right there. Heck, if you’ve got the meter, you could even do a random emergency combination in certain match ups, and then just DHC into round harvest, hard tag, etc. Who knows, you might laugh at getting the random Emergency Combination to land, and then just DHC into dem sparks. It’s not too unlikely, what with the massive invincibility on that move.
Anyways, this is mostly speculation/theory craft. Feel free to disagree/jump on whatever. And sorry for the incredibly long post. x|
I now know you use Ryuenjin as your Zero assist. I’m curios how your using it if you wouldn’t mind going into detail. I know in Sogenmu mode it’s basically a reversal as the clone won’t get stuffed.
I’ve been using Handeki, it’s slow speed lets you set up some crossup stuff using H BK feints, and it is possible to do alot of stuff with it if it’s sogenmu’d.
Ryuenjin as an assist is very finicky, I actually haven’t gotten around to using it in Sougenmu mode since vanilla, just using it in its default state primarily.
Things about ryuenjin that make it silly for Viper:
Its hit box covers a really important location and lasts for an exceptionally long time. When Viper has Strider for all ranged threats having Zero for close range is incredibly powerful, and despite it being near reversal status Viper gets a full combo after it either by stair step kicking, or more easily super jump, air dash forward, C, S.
The crossover counter is obviously really solid.
The amount of block stun it gives lets you very safely transition from 1 string to another or even set up unblockables, people don’t think of it as a long lasting assist but it actually puts them in block stun for really bloody long, if you summon it at the same time as focusing it’s just short of enough to unblockable with from neutral, and thanks to how advance guard interacts with multi hit things it’s very powerful.
The primary reason I like it is the one range you really shouldn’t summon Strider at is the range that it performs the best while Hadangeki and shippuga both are often better off using Vajra when people are at those distances. How huge the sword is in comparison with how thin Viper is can be a huge issue for every character without a sword hit box too since it engulfs everywhere around her really safely while she gets to set up BS off of it. You can actually use it to set up more mix ups in close range thanks to just how big it is and how long it lasts.
Sougenmu Ryuenjin I’m going to go to the lab with sometime soon to see exactly what silliness I can accomplish with it.
That was my vanilla Viper team. Honestly I think that team was secretly god-tier in vanilla. But the hit-stun nerfs and generally system changes made a lot of my tech not work anymore so I dropped it. Still a really broken team though.
yea im thinking of learning dante and playing that as a side team. it seems really dirty. lol. i used Viper/Trish/Doom in vanilla. and that was also a broken team lol
I haven’t spent too much lab time with the team yet. But Sogenmu Ryuenjin assist is amazing. It’s almost Haggar Level with Viper. The clone will always do the attack even if the real Zero is stuffed (at least I’ve never seen otherwise). And since Viper can convert off Ryuenjin… It gets really stupid.
As such I usually try to end my combo’s with Burst Time > DHC > Sognemu. Do a few Sognemu loops (lighting or launch) for the kill and then Tag Viper back in for the snap.
Just wondering, but is it possible to consistently relaunch with Viper using Low Voltage? I remember when Ultimate first came out I tried it but I couldn’t get it down 100%. I’ve been struggling to find a third for my team of Viper/Dante.
Oh wow lol I can relaunch with plasma beam easier than with low voltage. Do you have any advice on the timing though? I just remember that sometimes after seismo, they recovered too quickly or were too high to get hit by the tk L BK.
I agree. From all the teams I have fought so far in Ultimate I feel like this team can fight every other team in the game. Bad match-up for Viper like Zero or Firebrand? Run Taskmaster on point and lame them out with rapid slash, get Viper as an anchor. Arrows are just an all around solid assist. TOD’s out the ass from air-grabs and unblockable’s (Viper and Taskmaster) to full-screen rapid-slash hit-confirms and EX Seismos.
Once I’m actually good with Viper and Vergil and I can show off what this team can do it could become pretty popular.
DId more testing. The Sogenmu clone will get stuffed. But 95% of the time the very first hit of the clones Ryuenjin will still hit… and that’s a soft knockdown, and Viper can easily catch them before they hit the ground in most situations.
if i were to run a team of viper trish dante do you think i could get by with using peakaboo and weasel shot? i know viper loves jam session but i feel like weasel shot could be really strong for viper and trish, while peakboo could kind of cover her blind spot maybe?
