in that set up he’s doing a standing H before uwt. but i guess you can escape it. nice
i was wrong lol. Guess you can get all the same options wesker’s OTG has with vipers OTG. Thought you needed the horizontal range of Wesker’s OTG for some of Spiderman’s reset options.
Fun stuff the other night gotnoskill. Learned a lot from playing your viper. Im still in my baby steps but I can already tell that set with you vastly improved my Viper play. I have a whole new approach as far as Seismos SJ cancelling pressure goes.
Good stuff to Kbeast for taking Viper/Mag/Dante to top 16 at UFGT.
I was dissapointed that you got derped out by Tron/Dante/Sentinel was really hoping you and OMG itz Andre would make it farther in the tourney then Rexor and Kerahime as you had much more interesting teams and styles of play then somebody doing Tron j.H spam and Scruberine.
how do you guys deal with wesker. I run viper/trish/amaterasu. And I have alot of trouble dealing with weskers stupid gun, it stuffs alota moves and I sometimes get in the habit of ex tking when i see it but i feel that its a bad habit. And when hes paired with a beam its pretty damn hard to stop him. Any advice? Im not sure how to stop the teleport shenanigans. sometimes I try to read it and again use ex tk to escape and reset myself, but i wanna use ex tk less as an escape
also sorry forgot to add im thinking of switching out amaterasu but was not sure for who i think maybe dr. doom or zero. any other suggestions? thansk for your help
He has the ability to close the gap at any point so you got to remember to not stand still and super jump. His options are pretty limited when you can do some long tri dashes at the right time. I believe if you mix a heavy BK with an assist to protect it you can get some pretty easy juggle opportunities and in the least get in to do some damage. You just never want to stay on the ground for too long because she can’t necessarily use her seismo game too her advantage in this match-up. Gun shot is too fast for you to seismo properly and he can teleport. Test out your air BK’s in training mode to see which ones cover the most screen. They do very well against a wesker that loves his gun to stay back and will only teleport in for mix-up/offense. Each jumping air forward BK has different ranges with light being the lowest and heavy being the highest. The worst that can happen her is if covered with an assist properly he can use maximum wesker to peel you two. in most other cases your BK might get stuffed by an occassional air S if you’re too close but if covered correctly with an assist you can usually do good.
BK is upredictably fast. USE IT! It works. And if you can do Instant Super Jump Forward BK’s on hit the opponent is hit higher for easier juggles than normal forward jump BK
gottnoskill is pretty spot on! This is one matchup where I don’t rely on Seismo too much, and focus more on Burning Kick for offense. You really have to constantly move vs Wesker, else you’ll be opening yourself up to all sorts of crap. Try to get in via the air and start barraging him with BK mixups covered by your assists.
Also, BK has a huge(!) hitbox and hits on both sides, is relatively safe and can absorb some projectiles so it can sometimes be used as a ghetto defense vs his teleport shenanigans. BK also counts as a projectile so you don’t have to fear his Tiger Uppercut L, M and his hyper counter.
I honestly think Magneto is a very bad matchup for Viper as long a the Magnetos are holding forward. Cheesing back with disruptor is stupid as I think if mags gets in Vipers face it is a rough day for her. I hate this matchup much more than I do the Wesker matchup.
I feel Mag/Viper is a 5-5 match up, one of the few she doesn’t just win. Controlling space is massively important against Magneto and depending on where you are the match needs to be played dramatically differently. (Notable mags I’ve played are Fillipino Champ, and Som so this experience is mostly based on fighting them.)
First of all do not let Magneto establish pressure, whoever is blocking in this match up is dramatically more likely to lose regardless of the range.
You should not try to reaction block anything from Magneto and he can’t from you either so it’s kind of similar to an MSS or MSP battle in Marvel 2, once someone gets a hit or block it’s just all bad for their enemy.
There are 2 very different ranges you want to keep Magneto at and 3 ranges you want to avoid like the plague:
Spots to avoid:
Your 2M range: This is slightly counter intuitive but this is probably the worst place for Viper to be if Magneto’s out of block stun, he can get high lows from here and your normals don’t accomplish any job at this point. You want to either close the minute gap or seismo him out slightly, never let him maintain this positioning as he wins the fight here.
Opposite end of the screen: With a proper ranged assist like arrows he can force a bit of chip before you get into a favorable range, be cautious and understand where he can EM disruptor safely with his assist and your assist, remember if you eat an EM disruptor and he eats task arrows as a result you win that battle by a significant margin. Your assists are vital for getting you into one of the 2 favorable ranges.
Magnetic blast positioning: If Mags gets to cover his entry with these it makes the fight harder, never let him position himself for it.
Spots to achieve:
The very maximum of stand A range: Viper’s normals once inside can counterpoke Mag’s with their speed, if you get him into block stun you can set up things that are unreactable and he needs to guess, this position is more favorable if you have a reversal assist, less favorable if he has one. As long as you’re on offense here Viper wins, remember all you need is 1 hit so don’t be afraid to burn a little gauge in order to set up mix ups like EXBK cancelling and the like. Assists can play a major role here so be very aware of what he has and what you have available.
1/3 to 2/3 screen distance: Viper wins the fight in this area, as soon as you get him to block a single seismic hammer hammers plus assists ruin his day thanks to how much chip you can do, once you get him to block anything at this range the match is dramatically in your favor as he needs to work hard and guess while you don’t, depending on their play style they’ll either advance guard you out or try to get in, trying to get in is much riskier and you can inflict more damage if they go for it, remember correct positioning is more important than immediate damage in this fight as whoever gets a close range hit will kill the other, making it more likely that you get the hit is totally worth sacrificing a little chip.
Remember that if they advance guard your rush down you can use assist coverage to go directly back in or return to seismic range, don’t let them maintain the 2M range as he can destroy Viper there.
Those are just some of my thoughts on the match up. ^.^;
Nice Chrisis, def take some not. However I still that matchup is at least 6-4 in favor of Magnus. If Magnus is coming at you like a cracked out frog like a lot of Magneto players do Viper really can’t do all that much other than pray the assist you have hits (and especially pray that that assist doesn’t get hit) to gain a little control. It is a whoever touches whoever first wins but I feel that 1 touch is 10x easier for rush down Magneto players.
I partially agree with you, but I think it’s even as I only think that Magneto with low execution is easier to get the touch with, at higher levels Viper’s mi up is faster and more ambiguous.
Except unlike Magnus Viper has 3 defensive options only 1 of which should be used 90% of the time. EX seismo beats:
All trijumps
All fake trijumps into lows
All fake trijumps into throws
And more importantly on block lets Viper start mixing Magneto up.
Rushing down is easier with Magneto for sure since if you press buttons in the same county you’ll get them to block or hit, with Viper you need to really understand your spacing and rush down and on top of that execute correctly. However if you do those things Viper is much harder to block than Mags. Her vertical ADD game is infinitely scarier than his is thanks to the ratio of hit stun and ambiguity of two animations that look really similar as to have no obvious signs which she’s doing.
Yea Seismo is effective against tri jumps for sure. Problem is what if Magneto players start to bait it at the beginning of matches? like fake the tri jump so Viper uses her meter and then she doesnt have any meter after that :(. You obviously cant react to a tri jump since it is so fast and ambiguous so it is basically a guess. Which makes it a 50/50 I suppose because either Magneto does it or doesn’t do it. So in that sense I could kinda see how it is a 5-5. If I had Viper at #2 coming in hot with 3 or so meter I would feel more comfortable as I would have multiple guesses.
So I feel like at the beginning of the match with both characters on point with 1 meter it is 6-4 Magnus and when Viper has 2+ it seems more like a 5.5/4.5 or 5/5
You react to them going up it makes it much easier, if they block you’re on the offensive and 2 block strings build back the meter and do chip anyways, I don’t do it at the beginning of the round, but if I’m feeling pressured it’s often a great way to turn things around as far as pressure’s concerned. If Viper has meter she’s winning the match, if she only has one meter it’s at worst 4.5/5.5. IMO the more you practice your mix up the easier this match gets since too many Magnetos want to be in Viper’s face when she has a lot of tools to deal with him there.
Seismo zoning Magento is extremely dangerous since if you try to Seismo to his relative location he can easily trijump hit you during the Seismo whiff but if you feel he’s going to anticipate on this you can Seismo in front of you to catch the trijump or use the EX Seismo to cover that range. Alternatively, you can use Focus Attack cancel into EX Seismo if you find their aggression too predictable. Though blocking that first mix up from Mags goes down hill if they are smart and are doing counter hit setups or using assists to lock you down into a mix up.
When you do get on the offensive you want to do the exact same thing to Mags with counterhits, assist lock down, and trijumps but it’s getting into that situation is tough. Outside of countering him with the right special I essentially keep in the air with BK’s and BK feints to throw off their AA timing. BK hit boxes are huge and can act as pokes (covered by the approriate assist) or even as an AA tool. They come out fast as well so good luck blocking the overhead on reaction in her serious of mix up options. Even if you don’t get a combo off of the BK its a solid knockdown giving you momentum advantage.
The fact that you can always EX seismo cancel regular seismos at any point is something people don’t abuse enough. XD
Haha…I still do it out of habit of my SF4 days as well as Seismoing people when I anticipate their landing trajectory. I like FADCing out of whiffed/blocked Seismo’s the dash is so fast it throws people off.
Thanks for the advice. its funny that bk is used for this matchup. Well the wesker matchup. I rarely use burn kicks. they didnt seem that good i think the high kick is one of the only ones with good recovery.
On the ground Heavy BK is -1 on block in the air it is -6 or something really bad which really means probably -10 because you’re in the air and have to land. Heavy BK on the ground is safe without an assist but you should try and use an assist to continue pressure. In the air the light BK is -1 on block but technically unsafe because you have to land which really means it takes a bit longer.
I believe if you do use seismos in the mag/viper match-up and they’re aggressive you should only use light seismos. You’d be surprised how much those active frames screw up Mags fast tri-dash. I tested the ranges on MAgs tridash with the use of Heavy hits and he has ridiculous range on them. So Light seismo is the safest but I don’t believe in it unless they’re 2/3 screen. If they’re overly aggressive I noticed air throws aren’t a bad tactic, but EX-seismo will blow them up for free.
when i do seismo pressures, i always sj and IADD(or DF/DB) depending if im running away from sumthing or im trying to get in. It gets rid of that unsafe recovery after a seismo.
Nice to know that H.BK is -1 on block, isnt M.TK -1 as well? M.TK > grab is a good way to get a free combo lol
I had some matches against Champ today/yesterday and it helped solidify my point in my mind, it’s a very even match up and I think Viper does better at getting the first hit if in, Magneto does if mid and seismo/EX seismo is amazing against him.