Spies like us: The MvC3 C.Viper Team/Matchup Discussion Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
2161

Yeah I would just go with Viper/Doom/Strider if you are as picky as you seem about it.

I personally feel her best teams are pretty much all the ones you mentioned. Chrisis’ team makes her the most oppressive neutrally but Drew’s team allows you to get her to at least work then have strong back up plan if she dies and one or the other 2 fall down. I feel the game will get to a point where neutral control is more important to the durp of your anchors, so for futures sake I give a bit of a nod towards KBeast and more so Chrisis’ team.

2162

I’m starting to learn Viper myself. My best character is Dante so I want him in the middle of my team, but it’s so hard thinking of a perfect third character. I play Haggar too but I feel like I need a lockdown character on anchor.

2163

If you are considering a team tailored around Viper I would suggest using 2 of her 4 BFF’s. Dante, Stange, Amaterasu, Strider. I currently think that Viper/x/Ammy is her strongest shell she get some good screen control coupled with lockdown capability, and she gets free unblockable resets and free unblockables in the corner with it. I’ve been running Viper/Dante/Ammy since vanilla and I can say that it’s honestly her strongest team composition. A close best would be something like Viper/Strange/Ammy or Strider. To be honest I think any Viper team with those 4 characters would be really good.

2164

Viper morri strider can Bang with the best teams . I feel its the best viper morri squad. Stider is good for 1 n a half charcters easy.

2165

The team does better with morri on point

2166

I am experimenting with a new team and I am having some trouble deciding on a team order.

Viper (BK)
Frank West (Shopping Cart)
Skrull (Tenderizer)

I’ve always played Viper point, and both Viper and Frank stand to benefit greatly from Skrull assist. However, I have mixed feelings because 1) now that I have Viper staircase down, I feel like assisted combo extensions are not a necessity, and 2) Skrull point means only one touch is needed to get Frank to level 4 without x-factor.

Can anyone offer any advice on synergy and order?

2167

I just picked up your old team? Viper (BK) / Frank (Cart) / Dante (Jam). Any suggestions?

2168

Please note I’ve only been playing for a year, so I’m sure there are many others more qualified to give much better guidance! Here is my personal opinion:

Jam Session assist is a real great asset to this team. Early-game, Frank will get easy level ups and anti-air reset followed by full combo; Viper will get unblockable setups of off incoming opponents. Level 4/5 Frank also gains a huge advantage on incoming setups with Jam Session. This also helps combat disadvantages against characters like Doom, Mag or Morrigan who like to come in from above. Of course, I don’t need to mention THC and DHC tech is great for getting Frank to level up.

Unfortunately, I was never too good with Dante anchor, and I found myself with level 3 Dante too often for my tastes. I’ve seen other players handle, but it’s just not for me. Also, Viper / Dante relaunch can be hard to get down consistently, especially if you’re dealing with latency issues.

All in all, I think it’s fairly important to build a really strong Dante end-game and without the help of projectile assists, but always prioritize getting Frank to level 4/5. Also, learn to capitalize off of Viper’s random air hits or Jam Session assist hits! Having staircase combos down will help a lot with converting those into high-damage combos. If your play is consistent and you can keep the momentum in your favor, I think you’ll find this team will work great, and if you have the confidence to anchor with Dante then that’s even better.

I hope that helps as just very basic advice, maybe others can contribute better suggestions!

2169

Which assists give viper unblockable set ups? Which one’s work on all incoming? I’m looking to pick her up and I feel this is such a valuable tactic I’d like to form a team around assists that give her this option.

2170

I want to run a viper/x/strider team, but I don’t want to use dante/vergil/doom, what other characters would work well in that position?

2171

Morrigan, Ammy, Iron Man, Sentinel or Strange would also work there. None of them are insane with Strider assist, but they can make it work. Morrigan would be the best.

2172

Wesker/Strider, being one of the better shells, would also work on a Viper team. It would also give you some unblockable opportunities and easy mode relaunches. Problem is, you’d have to rely purely on Strider to get you across the screen if you can’t Seismo FADC consistently/fluidly, and at this point Strider alone ain’t gonna help you get in too quickly against decent opponents without a teleport character.

You could also transition into more of a zoning game and put someone like Taskmaster or Hawkeye there and end up having someone to cover Viper’s approach as well as someone who can take advantage of Vajra for keepaway purposes.

2173

Depends on what your looking for. Heres what I can think of off the top of my head:

Synergy wise:

Strange-
Pros:
Great Synergy with Viper and Strider.
Gets TAC palm loops, and EX TK hard tag loops on clean hits, which lead to meter positive kills.
One of vipers best assist, and Strider can get milage off of Strange’s assist well so you can have a versatile team.

Cons:
Strange can get mauled if you don’t know his neutral.
DHC is sub par
Match ups.

Zero-
Pros:
Decent assist with alpha, and beat assist especially in sougemu.
TAC infinite, and DHC loops.
You get the zero strider combo, what more could you ask for?

Cons:
No life?? Really theres no con besides sacrificing Vipers best assists, for possibly the best character in the game.

Rocket Raccoon-
Pros:
Good neutral with all assist.
You get a character who can do teleport Vajra in the neutral as well.
Good DHC with trap super hard tag/do what ever you want.

Cons:
This team can be reset heavy if viper dies and XF is spent. However they both have tools to do it.

Ammy-
Pros:
Vipers best Lock down assist hands down
TAC Infinite
Use’s strider effectively with stance cancels
Slow mix ups are very strong with all members on the team.
Strider can utilize cold star effectively
THC mix ups similar to doom/ammy with strider/ammy but MUCH harder to block

Cons:
This team can be reset heavy if viper dies and XF is spent. However they both have tools to do it.

Iron Man-
Pros:
Uni beam is very strong with all characters on the team.
Repulser is also a good assist if you want to switch it up
TAC infinite
Iron man can use Vajra effectively

Cons:
You have to play ironman, which isn’t a bad thing it’s just going to take some work in the neutral.
Match ups.

Akuma-
Pros:
Tatsu is a great neutral assist. It can help provide Viper with more durability making her seismo corner push even scarer and harder to deal with.
Can use strider effectively and vice versa.
Ground Bounce is still available after THC and you can double super from THC.

Cons:
Don’t really play Akuma so I couldn’t tell you, however it’s a very strong team.
Possible match up issues?

Nova-
Pros:
All assist are decent for viper as she is a versatile character.
TAC infinite
Can utilize strider effectively.

Cons:
Assist are not the best for either character.
DHC is decent.

M.O.D.O.K-
Pros:
All assist are very useful.
Ballon bomb is great for establishing space while dominating the ground with seismo in neutral.
Psionic blast is a good beam assist for both characters.
Barrier is good for seismo neutral control, its sort of like a mini focus attack but viper is free to use normals, and its comes out even if M.O.D.O.K gets hit during it.
TAC infinite
Good DHC that allows for follow ups after the super, ala install supers.
All members on the team can utilize all assist effectively

Cons:
Big hit box.
Weird neutral.

Skrull-
Pros:
Beta and Gamma assist are decent.
Beta has somme super armor and makes it a decent tool for both characters. It’s like a mini tatsu
Gamma is good for unblockables.
Can utilize strider effectively.
Decent DHC’s
Since viper doesn’t use ground bounces of wall bounces THC’s can be creative. Especially if you have an assist still available.

Cons:
Assist for neutral, while decent, are not the best.
DHC is not the best.

Dead Pool-
Pros:
Alpha and Gamma assist are decent during neutral.
Alpha is a low hitting assist that travels nearly full screen! Great for both characters.
Gamma is good for cutting of an angel of the screen strider would not hit.
Decent DHC’s.
Ground bounce and wall bounce are still available in combos from a TAC.
Can utilize Strider effectively.

Cons:
Assist are just decent and not great.
DHC’s are decent and not great.

Hawkeye-
Pros:
Alpha and Gamma assist are great for neutral for all members.
TAC’s leave you with ground bounce available.
Can utilize Strider effectively.

Cons:
Hawkeye doesn’t dominate the neutral enough to be in the second slot.
DHCs are decent and not great.
Match ups.

Chris-
Pros:
All assist are great.
Alpha is great for combo extensions and creating some scape is you can cover him with seismo/laser. If he hits during neutral thats a free combo from the hard knock down!
Beta is the best assist for horizontal coverage during a seismo press.
Gamma is more specialized, it can be used to cover yourself in the neutral a lot if your standing right in front of/on it and its a great combo extender.
Ground bounce and wall bounce still available during TAC.
Great DHC that can leave you meter positive if you have an assist available still.
All members can utilize his assist and Chris gets good milage off Vajra.

Cons:
IMO his only real con are his match ups, but strider can cover that issue up.

Thor-
Pros:
Decent assist.
Beta is good in the middle of frame traps for a nice party starter.
Gamma is REALLY good for seimso push! It nullifies low and medium projectils and on hit leads to a combo, and comes out and a nice angel!
Lots of health
Both characters can find a use for assist although they are better with Viper the with Strider.
Thor can utilize Vajra.
Decent DHC
TAC infinite
Conter projectile character.

Cons:
Slow.
Bad projectile game.
Assist are just decent and not great.

Im sure theres more I’m missing but thats just a few characters off the top of my head.

2174

*note – unnecessarily long winded post here, but the very last paragraph is meant to transition into (hopefully) an interesting discussion *

Viper/Iron Man/Dante
Vs
Viper/Magneto/Dante

Obviously VMD is the better team from a snap judgment (and possibly even after an in-depth judgment). Magneto vs Iron Man? Magneto with Jam Session vs Iron Man with Jam Session? Please, right? …but think of the unique attributes that Iron Man can bring to the team.

In the neutral / match control:

If unibeam tags the opponent, I feel neutral control is sustained much better because you know where the opponent is going to be after the assist is done – they will stay standing in exactly the same place they get hit in (also potentially letting you plink in and confirm a combo from relatively far away). If disrupter tags the opponent, soft knockdown to 1 of 3 wake up options – this is not as predictable for controlling the match (will the opponent roll forward, backward, stay neutral – and will they call an assist while waking up?) Disrupter is much faster which makes reacting to your opponent’s actions easier though, that is a nice attribute to have in order to snipe assist calls or something like that. Disruptor being the faster assist, you can call much more liberally as well – if you use unibeam you really have to be conscious of how you’re calling it. Two very different ways to control the neutral from two different beam assists, pretty interesting imo.

If unibeam is blocked by the opponent, this is an excellent lockdown period for Viper to setup/regain a strong neutral position or to get in and mix it up (only problem is getting the opponent to block this – long startup forces you to make smart calls). If disrupter is blocked, the opponent will recover out of blockstun faster and you’re back to square one (but the chances of the opponent having to try and block this are pretty good because the beam summons so fast).

THCs:

The obvious THC made famous (or infamous, ha) by KBeast – the Magneto/Dante shell’s THC x-factor cancel, a practically guaranteed way to open up a blocking opponent and kill them. Good thing about this one is that it’ll work anywhere on screen; fullscreen, midscreen, corner. You just have to get the opponent to block an initial hit so they can’t counter hyper or jump out or anything like that.

On the other hand, the VID team has a pretty good THC x-factor cancel that can work with two meters and must be in the corner. Viper/Iron Man THC (using alpha assists) – viper makes someone block a normal in the corner and cancels into THC (no matter if they push block or not, this will work!). With Viper’s alpha assist chosen she performs emergency combination – x-factor cancel right before the 2nd hit of emergency combination gets blocked and immediately start charging focus attack. The opponent cannot x-factor cancel grab or jump away – they WILL get bopped edit (test to see if opponent can x-factor into invincible hyper). Then you can do a relatively easy, meter efficient combo that will kill everyone in the game!

Another interesting note of the VID THC is that if Vergil is on your ass and activates swords, you can THC and it’ll beat him out (for some reason this only works with Viper’s alpha assist, which is perplexing to me because I thought the proton canon was the thing wrecking Vergil’s activation – not quite sure what is going on even after testing things out for awhile).

TACs (infinites):

The Iron Man corner TAC infinites are all relatively easy and very stable. The Iron Man midscreen TAC infinites might take a bit more finesse but they are just as stable once you get through the initial sequence (I personally haven’t mastered the midscreen side TAC infinite yet, that one sucks!)
Magneto TAC infinites are supposed to be really easy, too (I wouldn’t know from experience) – but only once you get them started and stabilized, right? Does Magneto have TAC infinites midscreen though? If not, that’s kind of a big deal in Iron Man’s favor because all viper has to do to get a launcher to start a TAC is land a successful EX Seismo/EX Thunder Knuckly/Focus Charge – doesn’t matter if her back is to the wall, if she’s midscreen, whatever!

DHCs:

Neither Iron Man nor Magneto has a totally safe neutral DHC in. Magneto at least has rocks which can be safe if the opponent blocks them, so Magneto might edge out in that regard.
Iron Man’s DHC does a shitload of damage at the end of combos though, more than any of Magneto’s DHC’s, so there’s that in favor of Iron Man.

You can DHC into Magneto’s level 3 without thinking – Iron Man’s would be much more situational, comparatively. Not that you’d ever DHC into a level 3, just noting for thoroughness.

The secondary shell:

Ok – once Viper gets put down, which shell is better? I’d say it’s overwhelmingly in favor of Magneto/Dante over Iron Man/Dante – even if you get Dante in as point, I think that disrupter is better for Dante than unibeam is even though unibeam is still decent for Dante (but then if Dante dies, who would you rather anchor – Magneto or Iron Man? Gee, let me think).

Magneto can easily open people up with the lockdown on jam session from almost anywhere he’s at thanks to his quickness around the playfield and if the opponent gets tagged by the jam session, Magneto can consistently confirm into good damage.

Iron Man can only open people up with ease using jam session on block if he’s already right next to the opponent (because Iron Man’s super quick jump straight up j.A, ADD, cr.A which should be used for the high/low instead of the painfully slow ADDF). This may or may not be an issue thanks to Iron Man’s good range on his normals (normal+assist helping to lock down while Iron Man draws near). Iron Man suffers from bad HSD so confirming off a connected jam session shouldn’t be as consistent and damaging as it would be with Magneto.

The secondary shell is probably the main reason why VMD would be considered better than VID – once Viper dies, you still need the best team to keep playing. While VID might actually be the better 3-piece (imo), VMD has the better secondary shell. This raises an interesting discussion in itself – is it optimal to have an overall stronger 3-piece team and weaker secondary shell or a (relatively) weaker 3-piece team and stronger secondary shell? Should you play with the intention to completely dominate and keep the strongest team and control at all times, keeping all 3 characters alive – or should you accept the certain inevitability that you’re eventually going to get caught in a situation where you get tagged and you’re going to die, leaving you with 2 characters left in which you’d want the strongest shell possible at that point? If you believe the latter, then the next step in deduction is that you’d probably also agree that Vergil should always be anchored, exclusively.

2175

how would you guys rate a viper may cry team looking for an oppressive point character

2176

Well, Viper is obviously an oppressive point character – Viper may cry would be a decent team, not as good as Zero may cry imho. I think Zero takes advantage of that shell better because he doesn’t really need that beam assist to be crazy oppressive. Viper does so much better using jam session plus a beam assist – not that she really needs a beam, it’s just that she gets seriously oppressive in the neutral using Jam Session AND a beam. Although Viper with Vergil behind her is still excellent, just look at Drew Grimey, you know? He doesn’t use jam session or a horizontal beam and that team still works wonders – one of the best secondary shells in the game, I guess.

2177

Yeah that’s mainly because Drew’s team sacrifices neutral control for just being able to kill off every hit. Which Viper doesn’t require a beam as long as you are strong enough with her movement and seismo game. She’s designed to snipe assists due to the OTG and 0 frame recovery via jump cancels on her seismos. There are definitely some matchups vs. some zoning characters or rush down characters where have jam session or a beam becomes a near requirement though. It’s just you can work around that by just being smart or having Vergil or Strider fall down since the can take care of the majority of matchups with XF.

Personally I feel Viper plays best when she has some type of lockdown assist and Vajra overall isn’t really necessary for her. She doesn’t have the teleport movement to make it a true threat on its own. The majority of high level players know how to maneuver and counter hit the assist where you’re better off sticking to jam session for vertical coverage. XF2 Vergil works well with vajra though so that makes up.

2178

Im trying to run Viper and Wesker together but I cant decide which should be point or the last character, Im down to Magneto(Beam) Doom(beam) Dante(weasel shot) or Strider(vajra)
Which of those four would better suit this team? And what order should the team be in? Viper/Wesker or Wesker/Viper?

2179

Can someone help me choose between Viper / Sentinel / Doom Viper / Hawkeye / Strider or Viper / Trish / Doom

2180

Hello guys, i need a lot of help
I’ve been running Viper/jam session/vajra and getting wrecked by wolverine/plasma beam. I just wanna know how do you beat him consistently ?