lmao well said
I’m usually fine with paying for some DLC things (like the Knights quest in Oblivion, for example) but IMO, having to buy characters in a fighting game is totally different.
Most DLC is stuff that adds to a game. Making you buy characters is that “final solution” many gamers see coming, where the publishers force you to pay for things that should come in the game.
Just ban them both. Banning Algol made just as much sense and had just as much evidence.
If a candy bar is $5, would you pay for it?
…not trying to start any trouble, but I respectfully support Ghaleon’s argument. While I believe that both characters can be fairly defeated, despite Yoda’s physical appearance, you can’t speak for everyone that chooses to purchase the DLC’s. This makes things very complicated for tournament hosts because you will have to depend on the mercy on the equipment crew to have these things purchased. Whether tournament hosts promote this idea or not, you are still gambling with all types of different technical failures…which is something you don’t want to happen when you run events.
Personally, I’m fine with both characters. Honestly, Yoda is not that hard to hit if you know how to choose and where you to place your strikes. Not to mention, he’s not very agile, so he’ll take forever to catch up to you, so you’ll practically have all day to decide your strikes. Unlike Vader, he’s pretty much dead meat when he runs low on force bar, which is fairly early in the match.
Just my $0.02
QFT
It looks like Star Wars chars will be legal, though. The thing is, you have to understand, very few SC players have much experience with 2-D games, and they hate being forced to change their entire playing style (precisely what Algol does to them) and/or counter-pick since those aren’t common 3-D things.
I keep trying to explain how ST survived and remained a great game even with all the unbalanced matchups and counter-picking, and how SC4 is nowhere near that bad, but not many there will listen. I do notice that the more old-school players (i.e. the ones who started with SC1 or arcade SC2) generally seem to be against banning things, but unfortunately they’re way outnumbered.
Ah well, here’s hoping for another patch I guess.
Theres a guy by tthe name of Oofmatic thats known around the Calibur community, and somehow he made me believe that at the very least, in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing Yoda has a mixup between his rolling stance into mid/low/throw. So Yoda isnt COMPLETELY useless, and you would gag if you played his Yoda or Apprentice.
So again not top tier, but playable.
And when you cant use high attacks or throws on a character, something that should be default all across the board, then I agree it should be banned.
If Roll was in SF4 and she couldnt be hit by standing attacks that community would blow Capcom studios up. Yoda needs to be canned its just not fair, what good are characters heavily dependant on throw mixups through pressure? Useless. Everyone is reduced to BB spam and sidestep BB spam punishment on Yoda. Thats fucking stupid.
This is stupid. Ban Yoda. Lets get this over with.
ban nobody and play everybody in SC4
While we’re at it, we should petition to have Sean banned from 3S.
alright great posts guys thanks alot for the replies,and hopefully you’ve all voted in my favor lol.
Main reason to ban on srk and 8wr seems to be 5 bucks, man i hate this rational we really shouldn’t even discuss this excuse anymore cause its not a valid one for banning a character imo since it stops looking at the normal criteria for banning characters which is are they game breaking.
I believe people really are afraid to lose to yoda and vader for some reason, i guess its the sc purists and starwars haters who deep down will shrivel up and die if they lose to a starwars character infront of others. Josh the Funkdoc is right about banning coordinating with previous game play experience i totally see that, i feel more experienced players may see it as a challenge or easy win rather than something to hate on and fear(fear is the path to the darkside). I would personally use yoda in a tournament despite his huge gaps and if i won i wouldn’t say anything or start singing the attack of the clones song or anything like that i’d shake hands and prepare for next match like any other tourney. anyways…
I personally stopped playing on xbl all week just so i wouldn’t piss anyone off during the poll and will continue playing yoda again when it’s over. The polls almost done thanks again for those who voted in favor of unbanning Vader and Yoda it is greatly appreciated.
Ban nobody?!
What’s next?! Are you going to say we shouldn’t look for levels to ban next?!
I think this is an easy argument to understand and support.
#1 DLC purchasing unlockable characters needed for tourney play would be an ugly, ugly precedent. I don’t even want to think about where this can go in the future.
#2 It’s convoluted enough that people bringing Playstation 3’s for say SF:HD or TDR need to hook up to the Internet on the spot to patch someone’s SC4 copy to play the game (players are MUCH more willing to bring games than Playstation 3’s). In regard to SRK, the only way to mandate Yoda/Vader be have the SC community bring ALL their own consoles with unlocks and setups, which I think there’s no way that’s going to happen. Esp at smaller tournies.
I don’t doubt that Yoda will be nonessential for tournament organizers, and I would support that both SW chars would be banned for fairness’ sake. It’s a shame to people who play them but it’s completely Namco’s fault.
I don’t see how this will even come close to, say, gas money for a major. I suspect that if other games were to do this, it would be more like $5 for a group of characters; Namco could get away with $5 for one character because it’s Star Wars and there are a ton of fanboys who will pay that much. I don’t think Capcom would do nearly as well if they were to charge $5 each for Deejay/T.Hawk/Ibuki/Hugo in SF4, for instance.
For better or worse, stuff like this is the future of video games and it’s not going away anytime soon. As far as tournaments go, I actually see it as similar to venue fees in this regard.
I think you could get them to bring enough setups if you made it clear on 8wayrun/caliburforum. Hell, Guilty Gear has required Japanese/modded PS2s for much of its lifetime, which was kind of a similar situation; SRK people often didn’t have enough of those to run a tournament, yet it always went down at majors just fine.
Stuff like this is the future of video games until players start rejecting that. That will eventually happen.
I just don’t want to start going down this road, though I’d likely be a hypocrite if I didn’t hate Star Wars characters so much, and it was say, Hwang and Li Long instead of Yoda and Vader.
There’s also a chance that the proper DLC won’t be avaliable for a tourney to boot.
However, if I’m outvoted on this, I doubt it’s going to make anyone ragequit the game. I view it as an issue of right and wrong, but only in the sense that jaywalking, or not recycling is wrong.
Thankfully, I doubt we’ll have to worry about this crap in any tourney worthy fighters that aren’t made by Namco.
I don’t see how buying DLC would be any worse a precedent than shifting the tourney scene from World Warrior to Hyper Fighting. Or from XX to #Reload to Slash to Accent Core.
Are we going to refuse to buy into any expansion for a game unless we think it’s big enough to warrant buying (because at least a few of you have admitted that the real issue is how you don’t like having to buy the expansion, not with anything actually related to playing in tournies)? And who would determine this?
If SF4: Second Coming only patches a few characters, comes with Ibuki, and you have to pay $10 for it, are we going to reject that, too?
Only Yoda should be banned if anyone. He’s easy to beat but annoying and tedious to fight against.
If we’re going to start banning characters that are annoying and tedious to fight against, then let’s get rid of 3S Chun Li right now.
If it was a real expansion, complete with tweaks, new moves, a new character – i.e. the next, obvious evolution of the game – most playes would love that probably. But the examples you mentioned were heavy updates and the obvious next installment of the franchise.
If it was a lame bonus character for $5 that is free on the other system, I’d say leave it out of the tourney roster and play the game as it is fresh out of the package (plus any free patches).
It is going to get difficult if they DLC for SFIV, honestly, because if $10 gameplay updates actually worth something start getting released, tournies will have to make sure their consoles have them most likely. Actually that’d be great, since we wouldn’t have to pay $50 to play an updated fighting game.
Josh – DLC has nothing to do with players driving to a tournament. It’s not just about paying the fee. Gas money has nothing to do with tourney logistics and getting every console that DLC on/by a tourney. If $5 is no big deal feel free to give me a fivespot to DL Yoda when you come over this week, since you want it allowed in tournaments. :looney:
ed: The “bad precedent” part is charging $60 for a 3/4-finished game because you know you can nickel-and-dime players will incremental improvements for $3-5 instead of ACTUAL updates (i.e. a Champion edition). And you’d need system owners to download all these individual. incremental updates to have a tournament machine. In that sense having disc-based expansions for a larger sum is way easier to upgrade to for players
But again, refusing to buy into updates for games is a far more dangerous precedent than buying into them. Having a vocal minority (assuming it actually is a minority, if there’s an actual majority FOR banning them, I’d be on board with boothing them) steering the tourney scene away from every expansion they don’t see as “big enough to warrant buying,” then there’s a greater risk of people doing the same to any other expansion they don’t see as worth the money.
Let’s go more extreme. If SF4: Second Coming (my made-up second version of SF4) had balance tweaks across the board, but costed $60 new, what then?
i dont think most people would pay $60 for balance changes.
forgetting about what is “right” since thats such a huge gray area, id much rather have a “vocal minority” force the community to play outdated games than to have game companies charge me full price for a partially finished game (or in this case, we have the completed game but cant play all of it without paying extra) and then charge me extra to play “the whole game”. the first situation only affects tournaments and competitive games, the second affects games in general.
imo this is more of an issue with DLC in general than banning star wars characters from a game
Like I said, VADER breaks the game.