maybe that’s the point i just plain hate that ppl cant admit it that he isnt competetiv…
its no problem to play a lowtier im stiel in love with the general idea but reading always supid sentences LIKE “HAKAN is GREAT NOW” really got on my nervs ppl admit it… he is not…
capcom coulld have at least give him a tad more love 
sadly !! i didnt leave him in super and hoped it may be much better after rebalancing at least some of the woerst charakters in game…
Reaper, you get mad at one extreme and then you just try to argue the opposite extreme. Did you ever consider that Hakan isn’t god awful either? I know you don’t mean harm and that you’re frustrated, but I’ve seen this attitude on character boards before and it just doesn’t help anyone. If you’re being beaten with bad luck and sir jumpalots, do you ever consider that it might not be the character’s fault? I know for a fact that some of the players on this board are competent, and most likely have faced good opponents. I know I have. If you want me to put up more videos, fine, just give me some time. But besides occasional execution flaws, I haven’t run into to situations where it was impossible, even difficult for me to compete on a character level.
Why don’t you go to the strategy thread, and actually talk about what you’re having trouble with? It’s a lot more helpful to the community than venting your frustration in an ultimately useless thread that will bear no fruit.
I didn’t say he moved to a high tier. But the changes to Hakan are big changes, and there is no question for any thinking person that he is improved. Are there still bad matchups? Of course. He’s a quirky character. That’s just Hakan. But he’s still much better than he was. I’m not trying to hype him. To play Hakan is to fight some very problematic battles. But it’s also much easier to win now… at least, as we get used to AE. Gameplay with Hakan is radically changed. Not a radical move in the tier list, though. I never made that claim.
I think Hakan got a lot better just because of his oil stack. Remeber OP that all of Hakans normal are so much better oiled and having 50 seconds of it its great. Now if you want to talk about a character who is crap then play Fuerte, they debuffed him so hard it isnt even funny
Swoops, I appreciate the LONG post and fair attitude (over most of SRK), but you say I have no validity and then you come off like your some master of the character. My hypothetical, that you couldn’t understand, is simple. Hakan’s playstle doesn’t give him chip, speed or consistent high damage. So when you play an equally skilled player out of ten matches, you will eventually lose most because you can’t mix up with Hakan like the rest of the cast, as ducking and then sliding back and forth and oiling isn’t a GDLK, impossible mix-up. This shouldn’t be a complicated concept. It’s how tiers are made.
And … “Hakan is the most unique character”, I know he is. Hell, EVERYONE here knows that and loves Hakan. I love Hakan. We’re not hating. But his changes resulted in zero movements on the tier list in over seven months of the game being out. Maybe you think I’m being an asshole but I already know EVERYTHING you listed to show me how little I know. Anti-air St.MP? Next are you going to tell me to use t+lk as a poke?
Saying Hakan “sucks” doesn’t hurt the character, acting like there’s no problem hurts the character. Here’s some real problems.
In exchange for stacking oil we got a longer LK oil. Why?
if you poke someone with cr.MK, a respectable poke, you can get SRK’ed during recovery. And that’s not the only normal with that problem. Why?
Stricter movements were applied to Ultra, making it harder to activate, but exaggerated Hado motions (even by a little bit) gets you a throw still. So now it’s harder to U1 as much, but we still get grabs when we don’t want? (Not as easy to mistake as SSFIV though, so I guess that’s something.) Still, why?
If you’re like me, you get your opponent down to 1/10 or less life, every round. But … you can’t chip, with anything. Ever. Gief and Hawk have chip attacks. Gief has a safe one. So we’re left almost winning the round because EVERY thing we hit them with is contact-only. And don’t point out the oil slide. Have you seen the chip that gives? And in exchange for leaving you right in front of the opponent for free SRK/Ultra to boot.
These are problems that I’m refering to. Not that I want an SRK-move or some easy damage like everyone seems to interpret. I am winning more than I EVER DID IN SSFIV. But … he’s still got problems. That’s all I’m saying.
This is what I mean…Hakan has options for this situation, yeah they’re advanced but it’s not as braindead as people make out, that neutral jump owns hakan, it’s not the case at all. This is what I mean when i say learn the character…
Also, at your earlier post, why would you slide around in ranked matches looking for safe slide setups? I’m all for setting up safe slides with oki but doing full/mid screen slides hoping that you tag with the end of it for a grab or ultra? Not liking that…i don’t know how that’s gonna improve your game if i’m honest, whether you win or not
@Liquigen -I like this idea of taking the Killian video and having a look at it, it’s true that people aren’t using him right. I’m not even kidding that we should have a How to use Hakan thread because some of the things i’ve read boggles the mind, and even watching hakan replays online, it’s a little depressing
@mrdrofficer - You say you can’t mix up with Hakan like the rest of the cast? I don’t think thats true, Hakan is the master of mix ups, safe jumps, untechable knockdowns, it’s one of the biggest parts of his game, you have so many options after a knockdown, so I can’t agree
@Samurai Drew. Fair enough. I see where you’re coming from. I disagree about the safe jumps but, hey, that’s this whole thread I guess.
Hakan wasn’t going to magically turn into a top tier character. Just be happy that he’s less bad.
Lol, it was a long one, I just started typing and it wouldn’t stop >.<. You seem to think that I’m just playing the opposite side of the coin that reaper is, but that isn’t the case at all. I know Hakan has flaws, you aren’t going to find many characters who don’t. But an overly negative attitude and constantly blaming your character rather than questioning your own strategy hurts the community just as much as denial over a characters weaknesses. I remember being on a character board where that’s all people did and it just made things very negative and was like a poison that made it so no one could talk realistically. I just don’t like seeing that happen.
If it seemed like I was specifically targeting you during that earlier rant though, I apologize. I was more targeting the points, trying to get people to focus on the reality of his flaws rather than just throwing out fixes for things that I think should be fixed within a players own strategy.
Is there really stricter movements to U1? Wasn’t mentioned in any of the changes, and I haven’t personally noticed it being harder. I would’ve liked to buffer 360 and not have the move come out like 5 seconds later when I hit :p: though -_-. As far as the cr.MK problem goes, it was reallly only a problem when it was the only thing you could combo out of. Now that he has reliable safe ticks to go into slide, it’s perfectly fine for damage. But it’s definitely not his only SRKable normal. Just starting using other things for poking now, like f.LK :). I personally think c.MK is only good for counter-poking at further distances anyways, other than that it doesn’t really fall into an oft-used camp.
Things are looking more up than ever for Hakan though. I’m pretty excited to get out there and rep him.
just a quick not im not blaming hakan for my looses i know pretty well when im on autopilot or drunk 
but i blame the changes for not helping him about a certain point it was to less from capcom in his changes it’s ok for a charakterdesigne to hafe flaws but they should at least give him 9seconds of oil at round start … and of cours f+lk 3 frames startup… make some normals saver… such stuff… or c.hk airborn his super useful at least as antiair… (why not make his super like U1 or U2 or at least allow it to hit juggled opponents im not asking for al of this shit but i REALLY really would love to see hakan getting midtier because i would say hey would be more fun to play…
do you guys not see that some moves with a little bit tweaking would be so much more fun to use…
EX-DDT with one Armorframe as excample
No hard feelings.When I re-read my post, I thought, “ugh, going a little hard on this guy right now.” So sorry about that if I did.
I agree with all your points too. Especially about the “negativity as poison” part. I would hate for that to happen since Hakan’s thread is one of the few bastions from the SRK trolls. And, yeah, 720 is more strict but 360 are the same (from what I can tell). I gotta practice it better but he’s already the hardest to dash/U1 of the grappler’s and now the timing is stricter. Ugh. So painful.
And @ Reaper - I think we are all coming to a better consensus on this thread, it’s actually a great thread if used as a temporary stress reliever but hopefully new tech will come out and we can all feel better about him. I just found that cross up meaty with an empty jump into toward LK to slide is a great mix up.
Do I want better buffs? Absolutely. Is he 100 percent better in AE? You know it. Oil stacking alone is a mystery why it was never built into the character. But I see Capcom’s point too. GDLK Hakan would kill the fan base. Most people think Hakan is like Fuerte and they HATE playing him. To make a character people hate to fight a top character would be suicide for SFIV. They’re playing Hakan slowly. The don’t want to make any big changes and run the risk. Could you imagine a Hakan patch? Super embarrassing …
After reading your full post, I have to agree. Oil Dive is a damn chore to use right. I can’t do it. it’s like a trolling move at best. It is so hard to land, I don’t even know if I’m doing it right to be honest. It should go through fireballs, honestly. EX-Oil Dive through fireballs would be the shit. Come on guys, you know it. Fair buff too, IMO.
And yeah, Super? I did a super with fireball invincibility just as ryu was releasing the FB and I got hit out. What? How? Honda’s U1 had the same problem. Why am I punished for having a quick reflex? How is that even needed to be in the game? What does that accomplish?
Rant Over! Why is the Hbox so big on Oil Slide? It’s like as tall as he is? JHK hits him at head height despite him sliding on the grou ---- no. Rant over!
Oil Dive isn’t all that random, I don’t feel. It certainly could use a buff so that it didn’t miss thing that you think it would hit (I’ve seen it clip on an opponent in mid air and miss, to much avail).
Also, doesn’t EX dive have fireball invincibility on start up? Or is it just the super? I might be imagining things, so please ignore me. lol
Yeah, the hitbox makes no sense…Like why I got basic throwed by a Yun from the slide once, or why all of the grappler’s throws can pick me up mid slide. =\ Annoying. I’d complain and wish that slide was more safe, but seeing as you can pick the length at which you slide, I call it a wash.
As far as I can see, oil dives were made for uncrouchable set-ups, intentionally or not.
so far, the most annoying thing about new Hakan is that everybody online now says Hakan is broken/cheap/easy mode. It gets really annoying. -Im like ‘naw son, its me. gimme props.’ But they cry gimmicks (and still cant overcome) or OP normals.“SAFE SLIDE!!! that buff is BS” hahaa- Other than that new Hakan is ill.
as far as the ultra input more strict;
it seems al;l the inputs (timing really) are more strict: i think they reduced the time the game remembers inputs (why you cant do walking oil dive[damnit]/random rockets come out less/…), so if you are used to getting away with really sloppy timing this may make reversal (or certain setup) timing slightly stricter (but its still very lax in general).
on oil dive efficacy;
I use only in uncrouchable setups or I option select for certain chars and I land them far, far more often then not. So I would say the move is def viable.
EX DDT has grab invincibility. HK Super has fireball invincibility. Although the super is pretty finicky…I have predicted fireballs before and had Hakan mostly go through the fireball, only to have it then hit Hakan’s vulnerable feet as the fireball is just about to pass through entirely.
Also, I’d be pretty impressed if you’ve been normal thrown out of a slide before…
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3289/hknoilslidestrong0007.jpg
I think it’s more likely that you got thrown either before or after the hitbox came out, since I don’t think normal throws can reach that far. I wouldn’t be surprised to get SPD’d out of it though.
To be fair, the normal throw that occured has been the only time, and there was a bit of lag. It may have just been a freak occurance. Similarly, I once EX SPD’ed a Chun-Li using her EX ground pound kick and it grabbed her out of the air and connected. Bizarre, and probably the only time it’ll happen.
you can get thrown out of startup (when he has just gotten into the full sliding animation), but you should feel silly afterwards. Is this what you mean? What type of opponent would try to throw you mid-slide?
Nay, in this case I was fullscreen away and attempted an oil slide (I meant to do a short slide but in a case of brain fart, i hit the wrong button). As I said, I think it may have just been a lag induced hiccup.
Nobody’s using so much of this character. Are you using backdash normal cancels and focus dnc normals in footsies? Are you doing bdnc st mp link toward+lk xx slide against throws? How about focus bdnc slide combos against meaties? Do you have the timing down for all the ddt setups, including meaties and resets? Do you have all the crossup meaty jump hk timings and setups down on the various characters? Do you have safe slide spacings and timings down? Do you have all his character and situation-specific antiairs down? Are you option selecting with slide and ddt and u2? Are you using his great footsie normals to good effect and buffering them into slide? Are you punishing correctly? Are you mixing up well? And so on and so forth. I know the answer is no. Nobody, when they’re caught in the corner against Dictator, does bdnc st mp to beat lk scissor/st kick pressure and combo into slide. Did you even know that that was a good option? And wtf is a Dictator trying to play no-charge footsies with his single-hit uncancelable normals supposed to do against a character who can move his focus around and cancel it into an invincible backdash canceled into a normal that links/cancels into a hard knockdown?
Nobody does these things. Get at me when someone’s doing those things, and Hakan is still losing. Not that I expect anyone to ever do those things, or for him to lose if he were to really do it.