The hit box for FFC extends to the area directly above his head. Frank’s dash is pretty quick at the beginning, so if you XFC, dash, and then immediately do FFC it will move you close enough if they push block, and if they don’t you’ll end up under them which will still catch.
I enjoyed Slip’s video; regarding the late pushblock, you have to change the timing on when you call jam session since the height it suspends them at is just a 1:1 relationship with where they are when it starts hitting them. Pushblock keeps them suspended in the air in most cases, but if they pushblock close enough to the ground (IE you called jam session late) , the pushblock will still put let them touch the ground three or four frames after the advancing guard registers. I have a 60fps video of it that I’ll upload to youtube later tonight or tomorrow. If you call jam session with the right timing, push blocking the last hit will still keep them suspended at a height that will let the FFC hit.
Frank has a few things that let him time his meaties really well, namely the fact that his main combo ender (survival techniques) is cinematic and gives the same meaty timing regardless of what point in the super you get the KO, and you have forever to set up afterward. Same with snap, there’s a consistent timing in the corner, it’s similar to a safejump concept.
The two option selects I tried in training mode on are call jam session, roll, and just after the last hit of jam session ends, you dash, and immediately do 421 L+M. If they pushblock, Frank’s model will clip under their feet since they’re suspended, and 421L+M becomes FFC, and if not you get crouching M. The other one is jam session, roll, and right as jam session ends you plink dash backward twice, dash with a neutral stick input, and then 421L+M. It works the same way if they push block, but this way if they don’t you get a throw or a throw tech which somewhat mitigates the throw mash threat from their blockstun going away once they hit the ground.
They’re both pretty finnicky, but honestly I think the jam session guard break will always be relatively inconsistent, especially compared to snapshot XFC which is pretty much a lock.
Awesome video Slippaz I really like the ideas and ill be sure to implement them to my game! Not trying to sound like a kiss ass but this forum has some godlike people coming up with stuff constantly it really hypes me up to play some mahvel (though the people that play against me … not that much)
Anyone has any mixups going low with frank? Because IIRC he only has 2 low hitting moves which are Cr. H and Roundhouse H, Ill try to see if I can get any meterless confirms from Roundhouse H because everyone just block high against me when they are in lock down.
The conclusion that I came to is at the end of the day it’s fantastic if you’ve never seen it and/or the player is dumb, and if they do know what they’re doing it’s a solid mixup tool that can potentially make them burn X-factor on incoming or or bad ideas. that’s pretty nice.
Most importantly though, for most teams if you’ve got 2 Bars and X-factor Vergil is dead on incoming. To me, that’s huge; if I’ve got chainsaws I’m only worried about Xf3 comebacks and out of XF3 comebacks Vergil’s the only one that truly scares me. Screw that character.
Yeah dude for sure. Actually, I was playing with a friend the other day and he kept push blocking out of the jam session ffc guard break. so, I just started using the regular snapshot guard break and kept getting him with it on incoming over and over. I guess it’s what Fizzy said, it’s still hard to react to and push block haha
Yeah I really wish we had some way to calculate the exact frame difference, but I’ve found that if you have really good timing on the meaty Snapshot for Zansam’s version it becomes muchhh harder to pushblock. If you throw out Snapshot well before they come in, hit on the veryyy last last frames and FFC right away, the pre-flash window that allows the easy pushblock becomes so small that your success rate goes up hugely. In a way that doesn’t seem to make sense (engine-wise), since the relationship between Snapshot hitting and FFC should technically be constant whether you hit on active frame 1 or 10, but maybe it’s because of my human input element. (Hits on the first active frames and you have to react to startup ending and go into a second input, whereas hitting on the last active frames you can have your hand at rest and set to FFC the moment you see the opponent enter.)
I like the Jam Session guard break for mind games, because if you’re playing a real set and someone knows what to look for there, you can actually Snapshot slightly too early and stand there for a moment so that they react to the Snapshot animation (but actually pushblock the last hit of Jam Session instead), don’t move Frank away, and leave themselves open to the FFC. I’ve had success with that, but it’s not necessarily tournament-viable because it depends on your opponent knowing the setup really well. Even so, timed right (so that early/late look similar) it’s kind of a mind-game-50/50…but still a tool to be used sparingly.
Incidentally, I’ve been using that Corpse Hop setup as my go-to, and it really is hard to see the difference between the left/right there. Definitely more confusing visually, and the 3 movements I use to set it up are tight enough that you get automatic timing for a really good meaty hit on a Snapshot (once your opponent’s conditioned). I definitely like it more than the dash-back zombie, and you don’t have to worry about the Walker putting your opponent in autoguard. Maybe that last is just me realizing I miss the roll timing now and then, though, and it’s not a problem other people have.
EDIT: Also lovin the Frank swag Cless
EDIT2: @theDude thanks! And yeah, character loyalty makes this forum more productive than some others, haha. We also cheat because Frank’s level-up system gives us more to talk about, but that’s just fun As far as low stuff…I veryyy rarely go low, but I work it in enough to make sure the opponent remembers that I can. I don’t use Roundhouse H much…but it seems as if working it in would be a matter of knowing how fast Jam Session is going to come out in relation to another normal…so say I overhead with j.MMH, maybe call JS on the second M and buffer Roundhouse as I land. That would probably be pretty solid, but it would also be pretty easy to pushblock out of. And if someone does stand there and take the chip from a j.MMH, I start to assume they’re waiting to XF guard cancel it and try to throw me, so I’m more concerned with keeping multi-hitting moves in their face to prevent that. Still I might look at working that in cause Roundhouse H might be something worth more attention.
Blockstun is a fixed state per attack with some minor exceptions (like how if you’re airborne you exit blockstun upon landing), so there should be a fixed window to pushblock it on any frame it connects. The only thing I can think of is the buffering of the super eating up the pushblock input (which it can do), but really the only way that’d be the case is if the window somehow varied for when they were able to be FFC’d, which it shouldn’t. My guess would be human error; the AI for example always pushblocks it after the exact same amount of blockstun in training mode regardless of when you do it.
Be nice to play Skrull/X/Frank or Skrull/Frank/X and use this. Its a pretty solid option and makes some nasty setups. Maybe Skrull/Trish/Frank with Low Voltage or run Doom at the end…
Yeah when I was talking about the Snap/FFC guardbreak, I was assuming that we were calling an assist (JS for most of us) to make it safe. Didn’t Zansam say something about calling Cent Rush in his video breakdown? Might be misremembering that. But yeah, calling Jam Session there is awesome. Nice video brother
Man I suck. I wanna contribute and help with this concept, but I just CAN’T get the timing down. Every time the blockstun from Jam Session keeps me from doing FFC. ;_;
So I finished recording all the footage for my Deadpool / Dante / Frank team. Will be editing it and hope to have it up by Wednesday.
I also found out that Spencer’s Bionic Maneuver’s super resets the ground bounce and you can get a strong follow up for more damage with Frank afterwards. I’ll show a comparison.
Yeah I didn’t know that about Maneuvers until a friend told me this weekend, haha. It means I’m now allowed to use Bionic Bomber in combos.
Btw Cape, I was talking with @VHSCless on Twitter early, and we were wondering what Frank team you actually play in tournaments and such? Also who of the Frank forums are going to Evo?
(though the people that play against me … not that much)
