Ken is so underrated.
Claw still wins with footsies, rog still has braindead rushdown, sim is still a bitch to fight, and ryu’s fake is not the end of the world if you have more health, or you aren’t blindly just trying to jump in, or don’t auto lose to fireballs.
I don’t think it is, but it is annoying when you’re trying to switch between HDR/ST
Perhaps you mean to say its one more reason why he still beats Gief.
There is something worse: he anticipates this, jumps straight up and combos you after you waste your super on the reversal attempt.
I think most people would disagree. I’d like to hear your reasons for this though.
Well my take on Dhalsim’s reversal super is that you are forced to respect it. It is safe on block and has enough reach to ensure Zangief won’t in a position to go for grabs if it whiffs. Dhalsim also builds meter pretty fast so getting super is pretty doable. I’ve never tried or seen anyone do a neutral jump over it into a combo. It doesn’t seem like it would work, but I’ll have to try that out since it sounds crazy enough to work. It would still only be a 50-50 shot that can be punished really badly though. I still hope it works since that is better than nothing. If you meant jumping over Dhalsim, that only works when you are really close and in his reversal throw range. Imo reversal super is what makes Dhalsim a bad MU instead a disadvantaged MU. Like 7-3 vs 6-4.
Chun’s super and neck breaker got pretty big nerfs. Afro Cole was one of the main guys asking for it to be axed according to Sirlin, so I assume it was pretty effective vs Dhalsim. I’m not sure how new sbk affects this MU, but I doubt it helps. Gian and Nuki had the MU as dead even, so the MU is probably slightly in his favor now. Cammy j. mp nerf is pretty big since now Dhalsim slide can AA her jump ins. Only neutral jumping is safe for slides. That combined with unsafe dps makes it harder for Cammy. Safer drills probably don’t make up for that. I’m not sure what the new spinning backfist accomplishes, but I hear it sucks and that using it gets you killed. I’d like to see what Cammy and Chun mains think about the MU though. At the end of the day, I’d bet those MU’s are the same or better for Dhalsim.
Dude I dont know who you are but you obviously dont play Sim. Chunli players dont need the spinning bird kick. Chunli’s super damage was toned. Her neck breaker was toned downed in that now you dont get the crazy crossups which makes it easier to block. Her biggest asset I think in the matchup though is the ease of getting off the lightning kick sort of like what they did with HHS. She still has her stored super (I dont care that people thought it was okay in ST. It’s stupid to have it in the game for any character but that is just my opinion. I’m sure it was a glitch in ST and people just went with it). Also you will here sim players complain about how fast her throw is. Normally you here about the bs range of gief or Thawh’s range and priority but Chunli definitely has priority on her’s.
Also in regards to Sim’s super it is not safe the whole time. Before if you were able to jump over Sim you still couldnt hit him while in the process of doing it. Also the reason why I said I didnt like the change of the new yoga flame motion is in ST I could be in a defensive position and get the move out while anytime. Now to do the move you have to lose your hold on block and more chance to get hit it you dont get it off in time because to do the move you have to be pressing forward.
There is no doubt that Dhalsim is a great character. Instead in HDR though he is definitely a mid tier character. Yes many of the matchups are winnable just not as easy or worse. And the chart I was looking at showed Gian and KKY saying the matchup was 6 - 4 chunli.
And zoolander you are the reason why my sagat has leveled up tremendously but there is no way he is top. lol Balrog, Vega, Bison, Sim destroy him alone.
There is no such thing as throw priority in ST/HDR. Chun Li’s throw is just as fast as everyone else’s throw. One of her biggest nerfs is her stupid lightning legs hitbox change or her spinning bird kick (depends who you talk to on this). Chun Li’s 2 biggest assets vs sim in that match is her j.lk/j.mk that sim has a lot of trouble anti-airing and her stored super.
Ok, so his throw range was reduced…when was this ever a big part of sim’s game? He usually threw you if you jump on him wrong, his tick throw loop doesn’t really work at high level play, so why people think this is detrimental to his game is beyond me. It’s like saying because boxers throw range reduced, he is now mid tier…it’s stupid, boxer is still boxer and he’ll still rush your ass down, just like Sim will still zone the shit out of you.
No damn way sim is mid tier, he still destroys most of the cast.
It seems like most people think that their main is weaker than it probably is (myself included, I realize).
Stop playing theory fighter and play with Sim before you comment. If everybody could throw like chunli they would. There is no way everyone’s throw is like chunli. I will say Vega, Bison and Blanka are pretty close but that is it. Maybe it is because their normals come out so damn fast and has a high recovery that allows for them to throw you that fast but everyone can not throw as fast as her. I do agree with you in the her jumping lk and mk are a huge pain and allow her to dictate the match. Unless she is directly above you Sim really can not counter those and the upward flame also misses her.
And now I know you dont play Sim. The yoga noogie trap was a part of sim’s game. You had to respect it. If you know a person cant do a move that is one less thing you have to think about. Do you worry about Sim pile driving you like Zangief? Exactly you dont. But if he could you would.
Sim will always be Sim. His game is to zone and frustrate the hell out of you. The yoga noogie nerf hurt Sim in that it took away some of his in close game. Couple that with many of the buffs that make it easier to get in on Sim and it makes matches a little harder. You dont think now that guile and dee jay match can be played a little different knowing Sim cant hit them cleanly after throwing a sonic boom/max out.
Look I’m not saying Sim cant win. I’m also not a top tier Sim player. But from watching those who have deem certain players tops of Sim you can easily see he is not as dominate as he once was. How can he not be as dominate and still be top tier?
This thread really should be closed. It is going to eventually become this is why ST is better than HDR, blah, blah, blah. It’s obvious there should have been some other changes but just didnt happen in this game.
Anyways you guys have fun with this. It doesnt prove anything in the long run. Play the game and have fun. That is what I am going to try to do.
Stop assuming I don’t play sim because I have and I play a lot of sim players often. It’s the stupidest argument to say “Stop playing theory fighter” when you have no claim to what I do and I could just say the same. I didn’t even come up with situations where it was theory so you’re just talking out of your ass to begin with. I expressed actual matchups and moves, not “Well he could do this if he did this”. So why don’t you learn what “theory fighter” is to begin with and stop making stupid assumptions.
The noogie loop is not part of his game, that shit is so easy to get out of at high level, you can reversal that so easy. Show me a high level sim play where they are using the noogie loop…you can’t because that shit is low level crap. Also, how the fuck does the throw range reduction even effect his slide into noogie? The throw range doesn’t even effect his slide tick into noogie. Sounds like you play at low level. Learn the difference between a loop and a tick throw which you’re calling a “trap”.
We we’re supposed to “have fun with this” when you said that your last post, go back to thinking throws are faster than others and have priority, sounds like you got pathetic knowledge of actual game mechanics to begin with.
Ha! Why is it that tier discussions tend to devolve into contentious online shout fests?
Here’s something to break the tension:
You dont. lol And going off your logic, since I play many ChunLi players and Zangief players I should know how to play them too. You might want to get off your high horse and read my post where I mentioned, stating Warrior Dreams noted the changes that affected Sim. I didnt feel I had to reiterate myself. You just keep saying Sim is high tier and then attack those that say otherwise. I said the reversal super was nice for Sim and everything else was not needed or didnt help. I even mentioned why and why not the changes were good.
And if his yoga noogie nerf wasnt needed then why did it happen? Low level? Really? Tell me more wise one. I already said I wasnt the greatest so I guess I do play at low level but I guess many others are too since they seem to have the same issues I tend to bring up.
lol…
You’re dumb. That is all.
Noogie loop is hard to get out of regardless of level and very useful in certain matchups.
This thread will go better if we all focus on the strengths and weaknesses of the REASONS behind our positions, and NOT on attacking the abilities of the person to play the game. Again, HDR doesn’t have the luxury of 20 years of matchup experience, so I think it’d be best if we focus on what seems reasonable to assume about how a character fares in matchups, and if an issue of contention pops up, give reasons, or better yet, videos, of why you support your position.
If you genuinely want to arrive at the truth, you may have to give up your cherished beliefs.
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You’re dumb. That is all.[/quote]
Your internet toughness is too much for me. As long as you feel safe behind your computer that is all that matters. And I guess that does make you pretty smart because I would hope you dont run your mouth like you are doing now in front of actual person. You then might see how powerful a yoga noogie really is.
This is true in my experience also, it’s a bitch of a loop.
I’m talking about the unnerfed version though.
No offense, but when I play you, you don’t use reversal devils reverse AT ALL, you let me pressure you on wakeup with booms all day, something you should get out of the habit of doing. If this were ST, I’d totally agree with you, that thing is a fucken pain for dictator in particular if he doesn’t have super. You should learn to use that puppy :P. Only reason I say this is because you added “in my experience”.
Also, we’re still laughing on GGPO about noogie being part of sim’s main game. 
Oh, it’s the ol’ “IF YOU WERE HERE IN PERSON, BOY OH BOY”. K. I never understand people calling others internet tough guys when they respond like this…lol
Yup, I play Dictator the same way in HDR as in ST, i.e. no DR for escaping cross ups and such and no fake slide shenanigans. Masochistic? Yes.
I find both difficult because apparently my ability to counter throw sucks.