Decreased noogie range makes Dictator, Chun, and Claw’s matches harder.
You can’t cancel slide into super anymore… well I heard that someone could, but not reliably, and I’ve never seen it before so as far as I know, you cannot do it.
You can’t cr. limbs under Guile’s/DJ’s projectiles cleanly anymore. Both are still very winnable matches though, but not as easy as ST
Hawk’s Condor Dive moves him closer to you instead of bouncing off of you and getting a free RH like in ST. Still winnable, but not as easy as ST
Honda can headbutt through your fireballs now. I hear mixed things on this matchup but I personally think it’s gotten harder
Fei can Chicken wing through fireballs, making it slightly harder. Still very winnable.
Cammy’s Hooligan is easier to do. Slightly harder matchup?
Some people are saying Gief’s matchup is harder now, but I don’t know if this is true
Sagat’s is easier due to fireball recovery
So he’s still top, but if there was an option for ST. Sim, I’d pick it over HDR Sim any day of the week.
Evidently you disagree. Explain.
Now that I think about it, what distinguishes being top from being high tier anyways?
Hmm, now I’m not so sure about Sim being top anymore… with ST, we have the benefit of about 20 years of experience with matches to support tier rankings. With HDR, we only have what, 2-3? I think it’d be important to distinguish criteria for being in one of these rankings if this thread is going to go anywhere. Otherwise I think it’s just going to boil down to “Sim is top bc he was top in ST” vs “Sim isn’t top because other people have gotten better.”
Hmm, now I’m wondering if we can even distinguish tiers at all …
Yayyyyy!!! I’ll take the dizzy on ST ochio any day. Lp headbutt sucks, super still sucks, everyone is buffed to work against, or can take advantage of HDR Honda’s nerfs except for maybe sim even though Honda still struggles with that match. Plus his HDR hands are garbage compared to ST’s.
If HDR Honda is not worse, then he is in the same position as ST Honda for all the wrong reasons.
Ya oichio loops is strong. I’d take all characters ST versions over their HDR versions, except maybe ken and ryu who have really good and worthwhile buffs.
LP headbutt does seem useless, I disagree that his super still sucks, it’s actually useful in HDR.
His Oichio loop was a huge part of his game and any decent Honda should be able to fierce hands or you shouldn’t bother playing honda. I wouldn’t say Honda is worse in HDR, he’s just different. I still like ST Honda more.
You gotta train youself to listen for the “hadoken” rather than watching for the motion. It’s tough in the heat of a battle, but it helps in certain situations…
hesitating to see if a fireball comes out takes too long, and many opportunities to punish disappear.
it also gives them a chance to sneak up on you while you’re proximity blocking =( I get fooled by this a lot…
or maybe I just react to sound better than visuals…
The loss of Black Guile in HDR sprites made him drop a tier.
Anyways, I agree with Ryu, Boxer, and Claw in top. I would think that high is DJ, Sim, Dictator, and Guile. After that, I’m not really sure how my tiers would go.
I say guile is still mid tier, Dhalsim match is still hard as hell. Boxer vs Guile is also very hard (Try playing Afro as Guile, I think I won 2 out of 50 last time we played). Claw vs Guile is another nightmare even with the claw nerf and HK flashkick which is extremely risky. Honda got better vs guile, his matchup vs blanka got worse and Ryu is still hard, T-Hawk and Cammy got better in that matchup, I’d say Cammy Guile is like 5-5, 5.5-4.5 Guile instead of the old 6-4. A lot of Guiles matches are like 5-5, 6-4. He only has a couple where he truly dominates, like Gief, but that new green hand makes it a ton harder and he no longer dominates, you have to play that match perfectly, one mistake and its over from safe jump ticks.
Ken definitely got better that, MP SRK and having all the hits cause knockdown help him out tremendously, the new tatsu really doesn’t do shit for him, he still recovers horribly from it and it doesn’t do a lot of dizzy. I’d say Ken and Dictator moved to high tier, Ryu is there as well. Top is definitely still Sim, Claw, Boxer and possibly Chun.
Have to disagree with you regarding Sim. No need to reiterate because I think Warriors Dream covered just about how Dhalsim is affected in his matches against certain opponents. Sim got a nice reversal super but to be honest, shortening the yoga noogie hurts, changing the fireball motion for the yoga flame stinks, the(rh) higher upward flame is a joke. Sirlin said it was for the Vega fight but really not that great of a buff.
It’s too bad their wasnt a training mode like on SSFIV or MVC3. It’s hard trying to learn things or getting better when you go in 4 or 6 player rooms and lose and then have to wait.
Any ways you guys have fun with this topic. I need to go practice this, SSFIV and MVC3.
How is the motion change for yoga flame bad? Also reversal super is a lot better than you think. At the very least, it is why he still beats Zangief. If you have it when Zangief finally gets a knockdown/spd in the corner (chances are you will) then he has to get in all over again. Even if he baits it, the worst thing that can happen is getting a standing forward to the face from half a screen away.
Sim is still top tier imo because he is more or less the same. His good MU’s aren’t as good as they used to be, but he still has a ton of them. He still loses to Vega, but Vega got nerfed harder. Chun got nerfed harder than he did too, so he probably has a slight edge now in that MU. Cammy probably got easier. Hawk, and Bison are more even now, but he still wins. Zangief still loses. Blanka, Fei, and Sagat I don’t really know, but I doubt any of them beat him. Honda may be even now. Balrog takes longer to get Super but is still probably even. If a high tier character has 1 bad MU, a few evenish MU’s, and beats the rest of the cast then what does top tier even mean? Especially when there is no character that beats everyone.
Was it really? You can’t really depend on it against anyone except Bison or Sim without a reversal super, and even then they could reversal throw out. Honestly, I love where the ochio throw puts honda after you do it in the corner. You are set charged downback ready to counter all sorts of shit just out of SRK range.
I never said not be able to use HP hands, I said use them reliably. If I felt like getting carpel tunnel, I’d probably use HP hands more often in ST.