Hrmmm, I think you’re right about the sweep, although i do recall getting my sweep stuffed with his cr jab a couple times, but I guess sweep wins MOST the time.
Properly spaced body splash is safe and safe on landing, although the blanka didn’t reversal, I think it would have been stuffed (possibly traded?). I’m not really a gief player, I need to ask DjFrijioles what normal it is that is safe to jump at blanka with oon wakeup.
Meaty cr. jab works really really well when blanka is cornered also.
That splash definitely would have traded if Blanka did it as a reversal. The only way splash will beat it is if it is a really high xup (high enough for Blanka to roll the wrong way into Zangief’s legs). It takes like a really lucky Kick Lariat or Green Hand knockdown to set that up and reversal electricity beats any splash done that high anyway.
When he has super, the only meaty I ever do is cr. jab because nothing else is safe. That thing is super fast on startup now and does like 60% damage on Zangief if it hits all 5 times. If he doesn’t have it I just do meaty Green Hand. If they aren’t that good at reversals I xup splash all day.
Alright, I’ll concede that Blanka beats gief then and is in Blanka’s favor. However, I still say in actual matches at high level, gief usually wins, just about every high level gief vs. blanka match I’ve looked for had Gief winning the set.
Would you mind going over (or PMing me if it’s too off topic) what the game plan is for Ryu vs Guile?
I don’t really understand the high level mechanic… I feel like it’s 4-6 disadvantage for Ryu.
It seems like if you fireball 90% of the time guile can back fist you easily on recovery. If you try running away tatsu then he can easily corner you and trap you.
For vanilla ST, it is summed up in the Wiki. Guile has normals with good range, but when Ryu gets all over him, he has issues: his normals have poor priority and his invulnerable reversal demands a down charge. The situation you are describing, with Ryu trying to apply pressure but Guile dealing with it, also happens in high level play, but most often Ryu will get Guile to the corner and finish him there.*
Edit: as for fireballing, that is something that happens in many matches. Charge characters will often want to use their charge perfectly to force you to throw many projectiles, committing to them. As it happens, they will jump in for a combo. Your job is to use many projectiles and establish ground control, but to do so while feinting and giving them some rope to hang themselves, being ready to punish jump-ins with Shoryukens. It is certainly easier said than done, and depends on the player on the other side. On paper, Ryu has the advantage against them, according to most top players.
*I had a link here, the new SRK version screwed it and it was lost. Just imagine a link to a video where Guile is at the corner and gets swept, shinkuu’ed and thrown to death, like it often happens against good Ryus.
The faster projectiles are more like a long range poke, so they are good for punishing mistakes and hitting the enemy out of ground moves. If the enemy is up close, jumping over faster projectiles like Ryu’s and Dee Jay’s Fierce ones can result in getting hit on the way up. The disadvantage is that if the enemy does not get hit on the way up, then there is a great chance that he avoids the projectile. The slower projectiles control the space in front of you for more time, but better players will be trained to jump over them, most the time. For instance, would you play against Cammy, Fei Long or Honda and use Jab Hadouken exclusively, they would walk near the projectile, jump over it, then gain even more ground as you are unable to throw another projectile, as the previous one is still on the screen, and will remain there for some time. Thus, many slow projectiles result in you giving the enemy the initiative, as you reduce your options.
When you mix the speed of your projectiles, the enemy will mostly walk up and block, then recognize the slower ones on reaction and jump over them. The more slow projectiles you throw, the more easily it gets, as they get accustomed to it. This is also a safe strategy: they gain ground while only accepting chip damage. If the character is strong in close range, it is well worth it. Against that strategy, fast projectiles will push them more and more back to their side of the screen, as in ST the faster projectiles are harder to recognize and still avoid at the same time, in general. So, fast projectiles are a counter to walking up, blocking faster projectiles at the last instant and jumping over slower ones, which is called “bulldogging,” a SF slang.
Throwing mostly fast projectiles allow the enemy to jump over them and rarely get hit, if they simply react to the animation or the projectile appearing on the screen. Or by predicting, as you commit to throwing one fast projectile after the other. Some more experienced players, such as Shogatsu (japanse ST O.Honda player), are skilled at jumping forward and landing really close to the projectiles, preventing you from sweeping him afterward. This allows him to gain ground even faster. In addition to it, unless you kara-cancel a Jab or Short to reduce the recovery of the Hadouken (which in turn sort of increases its start-up), faster Hadoukens have longer recovery, being one frame for the Strong Hadou and 2 frames for the Fierce one. It may sound negligible, but it does make a difference when Dee Jay or Guile want to stuff your extended arms with diagonal Roundhouse. This can be countered in two ways: feint and walk up (or early Short Tatsu or Fierce rush push) then Shoryuken, or using what I have called the “Tencho bait,” after the Japanese blue Ryu player Tencho: throw a few Fierce and Strong Hadoukens, and as your enemy gets to the point he is willing to jump forward, step back just a bit and throw a Jab Hadouken, for him to land on it. Chun Li players also use this, but it is easier for them as it can be used on reaction and even with a trade, they obtain a full knockdown.
These are some of the basics on projectiles. I am not a very good player, I am much more of a Super Street Fighter II X/Turbo and SF2 in general enthusiast and fan, who checks top player footage kindly provided by great people such as NH2, Gian, Ken Bogard and many others, and tries to learn from it. Top Ryu players could certainly give you more intricate insights and tips.
There is some more scattered around the ST Ryu section, “zoning” and “match-ups”.
Makes a lot of sense. Never thought of the whole “faster projectile leaves screen quicker so you can throw another one”.
Online I generally never have a problem playing people. I win the majority of the time… but that’s not a good reason to try to learn more. I figure I just never ran into anyone THAT good.
This standing light kick only gets you so far with high level ken’s and Ryu’s in my opinion. Though this is a good move all the progress you’ve made by getting close can easily be beat by Ryu doing a Red Fireball or ken timing a correct sweep putting you back into that zoning range.
Electricity. So god damn annoying. Even with a trade Blanka has a free ticket to cross-up hell from just about anywhere on the screen when combined with various horizontal rolls.
haha but even then, that is only if you make a mistake and get hit by electricity. You could easily just sit there the whole match like Metabolizm does and run down the clock every single time and win. Blanka has to risk going forward hit you with a light kick, i can hit you with three light kicks in a row and all you have to do is guess a head butt or hand slaps and you are beating me again. As you can tell this match makes me bitter, because blanka can’t rush forward
Well aware. I’ve seen some seriously good dekes into electricity though (mainly from BTC and Empiron) and great blankas make soooo much money off that knockdown.
I have been doing some of that lately (down-back pressing lp over and over until you jump) but I personally hate full-on tank mode. For better or worse I like to be in the action instead of running away.
I dunno. Just putting it out there right in front of me makes me think about a ton of downsides.
Can’t really use HHS against it (maybe worked better in ST).
I can go try to trip you, you jump it and combo me.
I do nothing but lp, you hit it, then dash forward into bite
Same as above, but you dash forward into electricity to beat or trade (really semantics there) whatever I throw out
I can risk a headbutt, but the trade off is usually too great (you guess and neutral jump it into combo or just go right into electricity).
At that range I can’t really jump without trading with electricity or getting hit clean out with a standing MP.
The forward hop is a great tool. Empiron gets a ton of mileage off of it.
I’d have to say my tier list breaks down something like this:
S - Boxer, Akuma (yeah yeah)
A - Claw, Dhalsim
B - Ryu, Dee Jay, Dictator, Honda, Chun
C - Ken, Zangief, Guile, Sagat
D - Blanka, Fei Long
F - T. Hawk, Cammy
Characters in no particular order in their grading.
I actually struggled on where to place Ken and Zangief. I’m glad you noticed they were out of place. Blanka is another iffy one, but I feel like he does better than hawk. Safer Blanka balls help in a lot of ways. Safe Hawk Dive is good too, though…I dunno. It’s tricky.
S - Akuma
A - Boxer, Claw, Dhalsim, Ryu
B - Dee Jay, Ken, Honda, Zangief, Chun
C - Dictator, Guile, Sagat
D - T. Hawk, Fei Long
F - Blanka, Cammy
A: I feel either Boxer or Claw can claim top spot. 'Sim is right behind them because they’re tough matches for him, as are Chun and Honda.
B: I don’t believe Ryu is anywhere close to B-tier. Dee-Jay would be higher if not for the fact that the top tier generally owns him. I think Ken, 'Gief, and Chun can be moved around.
C: I would place Sagat higher, just not sure where. I might consider Sagat > Guile > Dictator?
D: I consider Fei and Hawk to be slightly higher than their ranking, and they definitely have some great tools. I got them in D until further revisions are made.
F: Most of A-B tier are bad matches for Blanka. Even D and F tier characters. Cammy is the worst because she lacks Blanka’s tricks, has a crappy jump, and has some moves in her arsenal that are useless (I’m looking at you, spin knuckle).
I still feel like Blanka is better than F. Maybe I’m biased though. I also think that Boxer definitely takes top, since Claw’s wall dive doesn’t knock down and Boxer can out poke Claw (hello, low strong!). I don’t know if I feel like Ryu is on par with Boxer or Claw. Other than that, it’s mostly agreeable.
