As for Ken, worse Hadou alone is the reason he loses to Fei, Blanka, Guile, DJ, Chun and Gief (worse tatsu hurts here), and he also goes even with Cammy while Ryu destroys here for the same reason. He also has a worse super.
Ryu’s St.RH is pretty irrelevant, IMO. It sucks as anti-air and it sucks in most other situations too. From close distance, it is pretty much st.Short, SRK or st.Fierce. Ken’s st.RH is an advantage he has, in fact. But it is not enough to make him as good as Ryu. Ryu’s diagonal Strong is great, but I do not really recall the last time I used it against Blanka (but on wake-up). I would say it is not a factor in that match-up.
Blanka vs Guile looks like Ryu vs Chun to me in the sense that many say one wins, but most tournament and ranking matches I see show the other character winning. It looks like the one having the better normals and many safer options gets an edge as players do not perform like a machine. Still, Pasky is right: Guile can be played in a way he has the advantage.
I asked why because I think Guile has the match up advantage. I don’t see it being even at all. He can keep blanka out pretty easy. Same thing with ken. There is no way its 6-4 blanka for those reasons. It might be even but blanka does not win vs ken. Especially in HDR!
Yes, Guile can keep him out, but blanka has ways in, blanka’s cr. forward can bet all of guiles pokes when spaced properly. Blanka also has ways to pressure guile and can position is jump-ins so that guile can’t sweep him on landing (j. fierce). And if blanka can start his cross up mixup game on guile, it’s usually GG because its extremely hard for guile to get blanka off him if he gets in. It’s 5-5 imo.
If timed and positioned correctly guile’s J. short beats blanka’s up ball clean, even on reversal. It’s also ambiguous depending on the position of the jump, guile can move a couple pixels and still land behind blanka but blanka has to block it like a normal jump and not a cross up.
Shouldn’t you be busy accusing legit players of turboing because being grabbed angers you? :lol:
Agreed on the worse super, but everything else? I don’t see how Ken loses to Fei or Blanka, and I’d argue he loses to 'Gief but not worse than Ryu. Ken also beats Cammy, I find him to be MUCH more annoying than Ryu. People claim that Ken is worse because his fireball is slower; I would argue the total opposite! Its impossible just to do a spin knuckle with Cammy to get through that thing. He also still has cr. mp which destroys Blanka, and has a better SRK. As for Dee-Jay? The most I would say is that its even. Shotos are bad for Dee-Jay, and Ken can be very hard to beat if he turtles. Couple that with safe-jumping Dee-Jay’s upkicks, the tatsu tick setups, and its a very hard match.
Both ryu and ken lose to gief, but I’d argue that ryu loses worse, because ken has jpunch tatsu for wakeup shenanigans all day, and the faster walk speed certainly helps out.
Cr. mp doesn’t destroy blanka, it just stops him from sliding, trying to walk up bite, ball and cr. forward. Cr. strong doesn’t beat two things, a well spaced blanka sweep, and blanka’s “crab kick” st. short (which is extremely annoying for ryu/ken). The srk may be faster but that means it doesn’t stay out as long and the better srk never equates to an advantage over ryu. The fireball and knock down tatsu make all the difference. The slower fireball is a really big issue vs blanka, it means blanka doesnt have to think about jumping if ken throws a fireball and he can just jump. With ryu he recovers very quickly.
Ken’s fierce dp can help the match at low level, but any smart blanka isn’t going to be jumping over fireballs full screen anyways, high level blankas will always approach by walking and blocking and trying to predict a fireball when they are close enough. Ken doesn’t have the advantage in this match at all IMO.
Ken also has st. roundhouse versus gief, it works fairly well. You can’t safe jump Ken either, but you can safe jump Ryu, safe jumping is a pretty big part of giefs game. But I can’t really comment because I suck at that matchup, gief destroys my shitty shotos.
I think ken beats chun in HDR but not ST. In HDR, Ken has the godlike strong dragon punch, which is completely invincible, so chun’s annoying jump attacks don’t work. This is probably one matchup where a better dp matters.
I just want to say, that in terms of recovery ken actually recovers 1 frame sooner than ryu when he throws a hado, but he has two additional startup frames to react to that ryu doesn’t have. Its not that it recovers slowly, its that it takes all day to come out.
^QFT. The only reason Blanka isn’t the worst character is because Cammy is. Ken, Ryu, and Dee-Jay are hell for Blanka. Even Sagat can be hard if he plays a very tight AA game.
In all those match-ups, it usually gets to a point where they get close once, and Ryu is forced to gamble with a red Hadouken to save himself. Ken does not have that. Not only that, but he can get hit out of his projectiles like there is no tomorrow. Against characters that have better normals than the shotos (is there one that doesn’t? N.Sagat and Guile (up close) maybe), Ryu has his red Hadou (OK), Short Tatsu (bad) and Jab Shoryu (bad). Ken only has the Jab Shoryu and st.RH. Also, without lag, Ken will pretty much never hit anyone with a hadou from long distance, and most Jab Hadous will be jumped. This makes much much more predictable, and the fact that the overall recovery (start-up + recovery) is longer does not help him. Fei, Cammy and others will get on him, and will put him in that bad situation Ryu marginally exceeds him.
Pasky covered the cr.Strong against Blanka: it does not save the shotos, it just keeps Blanka honest with his many good range attacks. Ryu’s Hadoukens are also good for punishing dashes. Ken is more easly thrown out of his and can never punish a back-dash but on the corner, while Ryu can do stuff like jumping Strong or Fierce on wake-up and option select Fierce Hadouken if Blanka uses the hop. Ken is also more easly hit by rolling attacks when using his Hadoukens, and more easily hit on the arms after them.
Cammy’s spin knuckle is mostly useless, IMO. Offline, it will get hit with a SRK on reaction almost every time. It is a non factor, really: Cammy can control Ken with her normals, abd force him to gamble with a Jab Shoryu, or try a Hadou in between her pokes anyway, which is naturally harder than with Ryu and gives worse rewards.
Chun is the one character with the best normals, besides Claw. Ken has real trouble with her pokes. The Strong SRK helps if he mistimes the attack, else it is similar to VST: Ken will hit with the early part of the move, for more damage, while still invulnerable, anyway. From a distance, if Chun jumps straight up, it will still whiff, and Chun will still stuff the Fierce SRK with aerial Fierce just like before. As she has great normals, and Ken is Ken, well, he loses.
Well, fortulately, not every character is like ST Sim. When I say they beat Ken, I mean they have the advantage.
Gief has more trouble safe jumping Ken, but he can knock him down more easily and he is harder to push back. If Ken takes a full knockdown, Ryu can try to save his ass from the cross-up with a tatsu, which is something Ken does not have. This is also important against Dee Jay, Dictator, Fei and Cammy. Many characters attacks’ can be stuffed by Ryu tatsus, which is something Ken can not do: he is never invulnerable.
I agree that Ken’s aerial jab into tatsu is good against Gief, but Ryu is also not weak in that situation. He has Jab into throw, SRK, cr.kick xx red Hadouken, cr.kick xx super. Gief has to guess to deal with all those options.
Ken is not a weak character, but there is no match-up where he does better than Ryu. His life savers were knee bash shennanigans and cross-ups into super hit-confirms: the knee bash is now weaker, while in high level all he got was a better Strong SRK. I would list the weakness as:[LIST]
[]projectiles that are easier to react to
[]projectiles that are easier to stuff
[]projectiles that are easier to punish
[]only one special move against tick throws
[]he can get thrown out of this special move (same as Ryu, quite rare)
[]super is only a threat from close range
[]super is never safe on block
[]has more trouble with cross-ups
[]slower overhead
[]no dash-like move to push himself forward and get SRKs ready for jump-ins or throw more Hadoukens (Ryu has Short Tatsu and rush punch).
[/LIST]
Sagat is much better against Blanka than Ken. I believe the fact that there are very few Sagat mains is the reason why you have that impression.
Edit: disregard this post, I’m banned for not knowing djfrijoles is gay.
Speaking strictly HDR, a turtle Ken who uses hadous is tough to get in on. He has the same hadou-sweep setup Ryu has, and has the amazing j.SRK which can bail him out of many predicaments. I should also add that Cammy has an awful jump that’s very floaty, and I’m sure other Cammy players here will make the same claim that it is hard to avoid Ken’s hadou. I can neutral-jump Ryu’s fb’s all day, Ken is a different story.
It stops Blanka’s slide and roll. Using it wisely will force the Blanka to eventually jump, which is when you’d SRK. I know BTC will tell you that shotos are hell for Blanka.
I agree with everything you’ve said. However, in order to do use her normals Cammy needs to get in. That’s where the problems start. Cammy with a good anti-turtle defense would be an excellent character.
I don’t know about this one. It seems like Sagat is much easier to jump in on given his limbs, and Blanka has a GREAT j.RH. You have to be extra careful when throwing shots. It is also harder to use his normals against rolls as he throws them out slower than Ken and Ryu. Sagat can also be safe-jumped.
I think you and I disagree on almost everything, but its good to share views nonetheless I can only really speak about Cammy, so maybe character-specific experts want to chime in.
So for Ryu he has red fireball and normal fireball. Aside from the knockdown from the red fireball, what are the differences between the two in competitive play?
So some questions:
Is there a frame difference (start up or ending lag) between the two type of fireballs?
Should I always be using red fireball?
Any reason to use normal fireball?
Thanks.
Also could you elaborate a little more about uses of the rush punch in play? I don’t use it that often at all nor do I see it.
normal fireball is easier (QCF instead of HCF).
normal fireball does more stun. (jump mk, cr mk xx fb has a high chance of dizzy).
red fireball is good for footsies
point blank / very close normal fireball will put you in frame disadvantage
and even if you stand slightly further away, you and opponent both don’t have any frame advantage and it will be an awkward moment. it might force one of you to guess and gamble.
Never knew about the increased hit stun on regular, thanks. So basically use normal fireball normally, red fireball when up close and a knockdown is needed.
I can only really speak about Cammy, so maybe character-specific experts want to chime in.