Yeah, I actually don’t enter tournaments as much right now because I’m trying to save money to afford to go to Apex while still trying to record tournament footage at as many tournaments as possible. After Apex I want to start entering more tournaments again. They’re so fun.
What I mean by genetic flaws is that I’ve always had my flaws and they will never improve. I know some people who have really good reaction time (.11 seconds as they claim) and I’ve played them with their fast reaction times. Being able to react can open up so many options compared to only being able to predict. You can’t really improve your reaction time by training yourself. I have heard that being physically fit can help, but the people I know who have that fast reaction time are lazy guys and are about 20-25 years old. I’ve been working out a bit recently over the past month, but I get limited results.
Some people are just born smarter/faster/better than others. I’m not.
It doesn’t matter if those games had “better,” gameplay. At the end of the day, more people go out and play Smash Brothers.
It doesn’t matter because Smash brothers has still done far better than any of those games.
Your point on competition is also wrong. People buy what they like and don’t buy what they don’t like. This isn’t like toothpaste where they serve the exact same purpose and are very similar.
Sales=quality. To say it doesn’t means you have to also say that people buy bad products or what people like is a bad (which is trying to disprove an opinion). It makes more sense to say people buy what they see as quality products, even if you disagree. They buy it because they see the quality of the product. To consumers, Smash brothers has more value to them than, say, Street Fighter. So, they buy a lot more Smash Brothers. Not to mention Smash Brothers grows while the others decline.
OMG, the game has GLITCHES! It must be bad. News Flash: Most games have glitches. Even some of the best games of all time have glitches galore. None of the glitches in Smash Brothers are game breaking and people play the game just fine.
Most of the glitches are due to the stage builder (watch glitch videos and you’ll see they are almost always on a custom stage). If there was a stage builder in Melee, it would have the same problem.
A tutorial is suppose to teach you the basics. Why throw a lot of other stuff on there when the play is trying to get use to the controls. And besides, all of the advance stuff (which there isn’t very many of) is right here. No one outside of the highest level play cares about priority.
corporations like Zynga make sub-par mediocre “games” which are pretty much just digital shit, and millions of people buy their “premium items” everyday on facebook so their farm has an extra tomatoe or some shit.
does that make their products HIGH QUALITY items?
hundreds of thousands of people like weaboo and anime shit, does that make it high quality?
But doesn’t competition refer to the products/businesses fighting to get someone’s money/get part of the marketshare.
If sales equals quality, then Earthbound would not have one of the most devout fandoms out there considering that it and its sequels were not top sellers.
And people do buy bad products. Do they know that it’s bad, more often then not, they don’t know. Of course, some people buy bad products on purpose so they can make something better out of it. Case in point, the SE Madcatz sticks, and, to some, Brawl. If we want to go outside of games, people may buy scrap parts or a beat up car to restore it.
Finally, to disprove the sales=quality logic, look at cars and luxury cars. The luxury cars aren’t sold as much as ordinary cars, but you’ll have owners of luxury cars tell you that the quality is top notch (not always true though).
While you do have a point that even the best games have glitches (which are byproducts of unlikely events), some of them make you wonder how they missed them like the Gigallypuff glitch and the Infinite Dimensional Cape glitch (which, by the way, is broken and is banned in tournaments).
I wouldn’t call that stuff advanced, especially stuff like ukemi and perfect shielding. I would say those are important for any player to learn.
Also, you do realize that a tutorial doesn’t need to just focus on basic stuff, right? BlazBlue Continuum Shift has a tutorial that goes beyond controls, and Virtua Fighter 4’s tutorial teaches you EVERYTHING. It wouldn’t kill for there to be an indepth tutorial on the stuff.
You missed my point. I’m saying that more does NOT equal better. You can in add a lot of fluff that does nothing to help enhance the game or you can add stuff that does.
I love bringing up the sales=quality argument because you get to see how opinionated people’s arguments are. When you think about it logically and unobjectionable, it makes sense. People obviously buy what they like so if a lot of people buy something so it makes sense that a lot of people like it and thus it is a quality product. Again, the only way to say it doesn’t is that you assume people buy what they don’t like. It is also assuming that people’s opinions are wrong, which is wrong.
So, away we go!
Yes. Isn’t that my whole argument.
You are saying that you don’t like it, thus it lacks quality. People like it, and they like it enough to keep buying it. If the company made crappy products over and over again, then wouldn’t people wise up and stop buying them? But these people keep buying it. So, obviously its a good product.
And let me emphasis for them. You may dislike it, but it doesn’t mean it lacks quality. Twilight is a great example. Twilight is a very high quality book people love it a lot, bought all the books and now go see all the movies. Were the story bad, the movies would have flopped and the books would have done poorly down the line. But they didn’t. They skyrocketed. However, these are high quality products for females. Not us guys. The books are defiantly targeted at women. So, Twilight is a good example of a book that is high quality but to some, as only a few can really absorb it’s qulity.
You’re argument is bad because you assume only stuff you like is of high quality (Kuma and Eric do this as well). The reason why people can’t grasp this is because they hold on to their opinion, and their opinion is what they like is the best and what they hate must be crap.
Earthbound is a cult classic. It’s well loved by most, but it has barriers that prevent a lot of people to enjoy it. Because these few can get past it’s barriers, they can enjoy it. The Rocky Horror Picture Show is a great example. It is a movie about sex and trannies. This is going to put off a lot of people. But those people who were not put off enjoy it.
If any of you plan to go into business, remember that people buy products to do a job. You don’t buy a six inch drill. You buy a six inch hole. You buy product to fulfill a need. With movies and games, it’s entertainment. The reason these cult classics are as they are is because they have a barrier that prevents people from getting to enjoy the product. I would say traditional fighting games are like that. They prevent new comers from getting in by their reliance on arcade sticks, their high learning curve and their quirkiness. Street Fighter could be back on top if it removed those barriers.
The fact that you put in Brawl tells me two things. First, it’s that you draw the conclusion first, than make the reasoning. The reasoning should lead you to the conclusion, not the other way around. The other thing is you don’t care about the reasoning but what to scapegoat Brawl.
You started by saying that Smash brothers has to “watch out,” for these other games. I then said that it doesn’t because Smash trumps it in sales. Then you jump onto quality by saying Smash is not as good as the other games (which is your opinion.) Using sales is a quantifiable measure of quality. We can say this because people buy what they like and don’t buy what they don’t like. You can say that they may like it if they tried it, but then you have to ask why didn’t they try it.
Again, people buy products because they what to fill a job in their lives. They only buy product to fulfill something. For Smash, they want entertainment. To be more specific, they want a multiplayer game they can easily enjoy and play for a long time. Does Smash fulfill this job. Look at this and then tell me.
Everything you’re doing is trying to paint Smash Brothers and wrong and other fighting games as right, so you can say “Look, Smash needs to be like these other games.” However, evidence is pointing to these other games needing to be more like Smash.
First, to disprove it, you would have to make it unreasonable to think that way. An anecdote is not how you disprove an argument.
Do you know why a Ford is a better quality product than a Cadillac? Because people can easily get benefit from the product. Fords are cheap cars and are able to get people around, which is why you buy a car. A Cadillac does the same thing at a high price (and it’s a lot harder to maintain). It doesn’t make the goal of driving around easy. It will be a nice drive, but most people can afford to do it. This is why Ford is of higher quality. Your job is getting from point A to B. Ford does that better than a Cadillac (because you can easily pay for it).
Rich people like Cadillacs because there is no barrier in price, but they are not representative of the normal population. So why should less than 1% of the population define quality for the other 99%.
Opinion, not fact
2.That worked out real well
3. Who are you and why should I care?
Now, the rest.
They would be competing if they had any impact on each other’s sales. Crest and Colgate compete because if sales go up for one, they would go down for the other. Smash has no impact on other fighting games sales and vis versa.
Players are a lot more creative than the designers, that’s why. Developers have a hard time just trying to meet a deadline, and they have to test for a lot of bugs. So, first off, they would not be looking for Gigallypuff. They would be making sure the game doesn’t freeze when you play a multiplayer match starting as Zero Suit Samus. They also wont be trying a whole bunch of different things (which is why they’ll miss the cape glitch). They don’t have the time to do everything.
Now, the cape glitch can effect gameplay, but I’d wager is isn’t that bad because it only works in stock. It will defiantly make you lose a time or coin match.
Again, this would be Smash taking the playbook of the losing team. Blazblue is a commercial failure.
The point of a tutorial is to teach you the basics. Ukemi is far from basic as most people do fine without it. Same for Perfect shielding. Their is no reason to pile on everything for players who are just getting their feet wet. This is why it’s on the Dojo and not in the "How to Play."
You missed my point. I’m saying that more does NOT equal better. You can in add a lot of fluff that does nothing to help enhance the game or you can add stuff that does.
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Doesn’t matter. That was your opinion. Saying “More doesn’t mean better,” doesn’t matter as it doesn’t prove anything. The point was they spent a lot of time adding a lot of stuff.
I’m ETWIST51294 from smashboards and I argued with you about a year ago and I noticed no matter HOW MUCH I argued with you, you would NEVER EVER admit that you were wrong. You’re extremely annoying and you always think you’re right. If you honestly believe wii play is better than SMRPG because of sales, you can go eat a dick.
I still don’t know why you talk so much about business when you’re an accounting major at a community college. Are you self teaching yourself this stuff and reading Malstrom stuff?
To me, you’re nothing but a Nintendo fanboy who attempts to talk business. You only see things in black and white. You need to realize that consumers, in general, are idiots, not the geniuses you claim them to be. Ironically, you’re calling stuff like Ukemi complex which would imply that the consumers are morons.
So you’re upset because I agreed with you and didn’t want to admit I was wrong (what if I was right?)
I am actually an Accounting major at a University, and Accounting is a business field. I have business training. But I also read up on business stuff like Blue Ocean Strategy and Disruption.
I think I’ve found the problem Jim.
Customers are not idiots. Calling them that also means your an idiot because you buy stuff. You would be Capcom’s happy idiot because you buy all their fighting games. But you say your different. How do you know your different. You may very well be a delightful idiot for Capcom and buy all their games.
The bold is why you’ll never succeed in business. Customers are smart because they know very well what they want. Now, companies may try to use sales pitches and advertising to sway their opinion, but over all, the customer has it in his/her mind what he/she wants. Disruption works because these people want something else. They don’t want complex controllers. They want the Wii Remote.
“customer are idiots,” is why you don’t think sales=quality. You think that customers are like heathens that are below you. You buy quality, but the heathens do not (but what if you are the heathen?). But, if that was the case, that people are idiots, wouldn’t that mean it would be easy to sell to them? You would just need some slick advertising and know how to trick the idiot. But the reality is that most businesses fail (like 95%), and most are unprofitable for the first 5 years of operation. If they were idiots, shouldn’t running a business be easy. If it’s hard, then it’s the other way around. That consumers are hard to sell to. That consumers are actually smart and are very savvy with their money. On that note, wouldn’t the customer be upset if they were being treated like an idiot? If the customer caught wind that the business thinks their an idiot, would they still do business with them? Wouldn’t they tell all their friends and family how X is a terrible company and didn’t treat them well. You see how “customers are idiots,” just doesn’t work. There is no sound reason for it beyond the fact you would rather shot yourself then admit Brawl is better than Street Fighter (which is where this all comes from).
Only a few people in the world are millionares. A good deal of them are businessmen who run large corperations. How did they get there? Well, they understand the customers. Momma should have told you to be nice to everyone you met, and that is how you run a successful business. Why treat them like idiots. Treat them like human beigns. Treat them like they matter. Treat them like your best friend. When we treat each other well, we become good friends and live happily. We are also more willing to go out of our way to help. This is how a good business runs. They need money to keep going so they will be ready to go though hoops for these people and threat them well. All successful businesses do this.
Now, two final things.
First, understand that when you first play a game, your new to it. It is all new and different. Everyone is new when they first start a game. The “How to Play,” video came help them understand what everything does. They also need to know the basics. But that’s just it. It’s the basics. Things like a Ukemi are not basic because they are harder to preform and are not needed to understand the game. Throwing that into “How to Play,” is white noise as all it does is add more stuff new players do not need. They need to know how to dodge. How to attack. To recover. To use items. But not Ukemi. People have won matches without these. I don’t think people are idiots for not know how to do it.
The other thing is that you didn’t reply to my other post. I have two thoughts. One, it’s that you can’t argue it, so you don’t try. The other one is that you don’t try because you refuse to see the point. This tells me you are so opinionated that you can not be swayed by reason. That you are set in your ways.
But who am I kidding? I know you won’t take them seriously because you’re going to believe they can’t appreciate the quality of the book.
When did I EVER say that I’m different? I’ve made my share of regretful buys. Don’t go about twisting my words into some favorable interpretation.
How the hell is something like an Ukemi hard to perform? Just hit the shield button before you fall. Anyone can see how good this technique is. Not only that, but I believe that it is important. Let’s say that Mr. Beginner decides to play online, but he sees stuff like Ukemi being used and will think people are cheating online like with snaking in MKDS. Eventually, that person will return the game and likewise, other people will do the same thing.
And show me a serious match where you you can win without using Ukemi even once.
Well look who’s calling the kettle black. If I’m who you say I am, you’re no better than me, the oh so hardcore gamer you despise.
I also forgot to look at this and talk to you about it. There’s a flaw when presenting averages in a statistic. You’re taking into account both numbers on the high end and the low end. You’ll have people on both playing far above and far below the average.
I’m not saying that only competitive players are still playing Brawl, but this data only tells you so much.
Gamerbee beat Justin Wong at EVO 2010 with ADON!
Gamerbee placed fifth at EVO 2010 and beat JUSTIN WONG playing as **RUFUS!!
**
The two situations are pretty much the same. M2K wasn’t overly familiar with that matchup and he lost. If he knew it better, things might have been different.
I didn’t mean to say that the game is stagnating. Rather, Brood’s win may very trigger a metagame revolution: People may stop tier whoring, but that’s a pipedream. Even if tier whoring declined and lower tiers were being played more, that would mean that the metagame is changing.
After all of this, I’m starting to see that it’ll be up to what the players do that will dictate Brawl’s fate. Will the game die and the players move on to something else, or may Brawl become recognized as its own game and not “crappy Melee”.
I really don’t know, man. I’m considering joining the barlw scene, but of course I won’t give up on Melee. It’s just that barlw is so much more alive. To play Melee at tournaments, a good portion of the players have to drive an hour to the venue. That’s pretty wide spread. The barlw scene has it so much easier. There’s much more barlw players and more people live closer. barlw, the game can’t be too bad. I have seen [media=youtube]SXRXsYDV1Zo"]some gamesthathave entertained me. But hopefully, I won’t ever have to deal with [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijsuAnngSY”[/media]. But that’s just being optimistic. Praxis told me that there’s a dip in how fun barlw is. When you start off, it’s fun, but as you get better, it gets boring. But once you pass a certain point in skill, it gets fun again. I guess I can trust him. I’ve also heard that teams is more fun that singles so I could play teams only.
If more people start playing more low tiers more people will start playing MK to shut them down harder and that’ll stop real quick. Player skill in Brawl cannot get you as far as it can in other traditional fighting games.
Olimar is the only possible low tier that I could see actually moving up a bit, due to the very nature of his advanced play, which is completing shutting out your opponent and not getting hit very much. But even then, once MKs figure out how to get inside and get him offstage gimping him becomes terribly easy.
People need to just start having MK-banned tournaments and those alone would breathe life into the community. Is he broken enough to justify a ban at a universal level? No. Is he broken enough to make the game not fun for anyone who wants to use more than the top five or so characters (and even make it not fun for players of some of those characters)? Yes.
