Well, it’s been two years since this game came out now. Quite frankly, if you look at Brawl now, the metagame is still the same… Nothing new came out that will make this game deep and fun. Strangely enough Melee is finding new stuff and is still going strong. So yeah, I’m sick of Brawl and how it’s played. I’m just gonna do items play for Brawl. However, it’s pointless to do this since nobody plays items. I’m sorry, I just feel that items makes Brawl a deeper game. Having nothing new for 2 years is just stupid, it’s the same thing we’ve been dealing with.
If you love to play with items and think Brawl is better off with them, you are not alone. This goes for stages as well, I think the stage list is too limiting. This may lead to a new ruleset with items and stages, but it shoudn’t interfere with the itemless ruleset (Think of it as another way to play). Don’t be afraid, nobody will give you any trouble for doing this. Worst case scenario, we would have to separate from the current community and create a new one from scratch (If we can’t be left in peace). I’m reaching out to you people who is open to this. So let’s share some ideas hmmm :).
Stop it with this whole idea that the metagame has not advanced. Did you SEE NickRiddle Vs Ally at MLG Columbus? Stop being jealous that Street Fighter didn’t get into MLG kthx.
Not to mention the new tech BDacus that was discovered, that is going to revolutionize Falco and other characters’ metagames as soon as the pro mains finish practicing them.
my question to the smash haters is why do you bash it if you have never tried or even gotten good at it? You sound like little kids talking abotu a food you don’t like.
Adult: Eat your corn dear.
“Little Bobby”: I don’t like it.
A: Have you ever had it before?
LB: No.
A: have you even smelled it?
LB: No
A: Then how do you know?
LB: I JUST DON"T LIKE IT! WAAAH!
Also, this game takes some skill actually believe it or not. You know how fast you have to be to lip wave land into sh dair in melee? Its about less than a second to a second, and that was melee. In Brawl you still have some of those moves to, like di, where you have to input the command right before you are hit in the same amount of time essentially that you use to reverse a command grab in another game. There’s zoning, spacing, health, stun, frame data… It’s a fighting game. Why? two or more characters duke it out in an arena like setting using punches kicks movement and special moves. It just happens to be accessible and fun to noobs also, and that I think is where the hate is at. Lots of hardcore SF players want a sort of bs barrier like difficult move inputs to keep noobs from learning and enjoying the game, thus keeping the older players at the top of the pack. So when a nintendo game comes along that has this dual audience, this hardcore attitude and yet having accessibility, it’s scary to these elitists. Noobs can actually advance to the top rather quickly and knock them off their rockers in a “kiddy game”, which would be embarrassing for them. Because, naturally, as an sf officiando you are supposed to rule at all fighters, and if someone doesn’t go through the same pain as you did trying to fireball they are abominations!
-That’s my theory.
As for changing the metagame… Be inventive, take the standard strats with a grain of salt. Also it has changed, people can counter the climber desynch now and a ton of advanced techs have come up. Pikachu is good again with that lock.
The only depth I have seen(read: have seen, I am certain there is more) is the Izaw Link tutorial video displaying how good Link actually is. With discoveries like those I am sure there will be more to come. But then again it’s speculation :P.
Lip Wave Land? Do you mean wave dash into short hop DAir with Fox? If I’m visualizing the timing right, that’s not much longer than El Fuerte’s RSF loop.
I don’t think that’s it. I think it’s a mix of the idea of Nintendo characters fighting each other and that the director went his way out to eliminate any means of competitive gaming by making serendipity a factor in matches and that people continue to play this game competitively with these conditions.
None of the moves in Street Fighter are all that hard. They’re only hard if you’re not used to them which is completely natural. Besides, I doubt the older players and pros would complain too much on simplified moves as it benefits them as well. Of course, it depends on how it’s done. SPD should not be done with side B or else the move is broken.
Oh, and from what I’ve heard, SFIV does a real good job of being a dual audience game aside from that DP shortcut and the too large reversal window.
Does that make sense to you? Why should a noob be able to get to the top quickly? That pretty much implies that the skill gap in between the top and the bottom is very small, which is the case for Brawl, but not for Melee and the vast majority of fighting games.
Be inventive?
Just to clarify, I love the first two SSB games. Brawl, on the other hand, is a complete piece of shit once you get past the fluff that’s the single player and collectables (music’s great though). If Melee had online, I’d be playing that right now.
barlw can be a fun game, it’s just that SBR doesn’t want to take the risks to make it fun. All they need to add onto the current rule set is just special barlw’s heavy gravity and reflect status. They not only stop projectile camping, but they can also add a little bit more comboes. Sadly, this greatly benefits MetaKnight too well, but if SBR has enough guts to add in those two previous rules, banning MetaKnight will be a piece of cake. Imagine competitive barlw where stuff like this would never really happen.
Just imagine a Super Smash Bros. game where that doesn’t happen. I don’t think that there’s any ruleset that could make competitive Brawl fun. Maybe the Item Standard Play, but I don’t know how that would end up. The problems primarily with this game, aside from Meta Knight, are these:
Lack of Hitstun: Punishments therefore do not have as great of a magnitude as its predecessors or other fighters.
Lack of Shieldstun: Maybe not the best word for it, but there is not much of a punishment for shielding as you can attack out of your shield after the opponent attacks.
Auto Ledge-Grabbing: Shuts down most edgeguarding.
Lack of Fail-Safe Mechanics: If we had something like Tech Grabs, the whole chain grab issue would be nonexistant and more of the roster (namely Ness and Lucas) can become more viable.
Too slow and floaty: In my opinion at least.
Random Tripping: Do I really need to explain this?
My ideas don’t fix all of the problems, but they can fix some of them. It fixes at least half of the second last point you brought up. Heavy gravity does keep opponents lower to the ground so they’re easier to reach before hitstun (lol) expires. And with heavier gravity to pull you down faster, recoveries are less guaranteed, which kind of fixes your third point. I’m just saying that competitive barlw could be at least less dumb. I’m sure a lot of people know this, but many of the top barlw players admit that they only play barlw for money/glory.
Still, I think everyone having a perpetual Franklin Badge would just make some attacks useless.
I think it’s sad though that most people only play for money. Couldn’t they at least do it with Melee or some other fighting game because it’s embarrassing that they play Brawl for that.
Some players actually do convert back to Melee, but I’ve heard that most comverts convert to Street Fighter IV. Also, MLG. $12,500.00 for first place is a big amount of money. (National events, normal events is I think $2,500.00)
That’s what happened to me. SFIV caught me on the rebound so to speak. It’s too bad we can’t have Balanced Brawl as a standard, but that’s what happens when you’re a hack.
Anyway, at least your idea is better than a ledge grab limit. Seriously, WTF with this shit?
The reason why people don’t (with rare exceptions) boring stalling stuff is because Melee is really fun and stalling in Melee is boring. barlw is less fun and stalling in barlw is only slightly less fun than playing barlw normally, unless stalling is normal in barlw.
Make barlw fun by adding heavy gravity and reflect status to the current rules. Also ban MetaKnight. The projectile camping game is gone (Falco/Snake), comboes slightly exist, and a stupidly broken character gets removed. Everyone wins everything.
The real reason is that it’s not as effective when playing against a good player. People don’t care if it’s fun as long as there is money on the line.
As for the Kongo Jungle 64 video it provides an example of a flaw not necessarily inherent in the game, but the stage. The stage is banned in many major tournaments because of the stalling potential.
And this is a good example why stalling took so long to reach Melee- whenever something with stalling potential appeared, it generally got banned. Stage bans, delay of game rules, timed stock- all put in place to stop stalling. It’s not a one time thing- almost any way stalling has been found viable as a tactic in Melee resulted in either the banning of a level or an addition to the delay of game rules. People stop looking for such tactics when their only reward might be a mention when people discuss why there’s such a weird clause in the stalling rule list. It’s only now, with people in Brawl finding ways to stall on any level, regardless of size, space, and platform arrangement, without breaking ‘delay of game’ rules that it’s trickling back into Melee, and they’re finding that it still works. So unless some new, really arbitrary rules about ledge grabbing or projectiles not breaking ‘non-engagement’ timers (both of which would be difficult to enforce and the latter in particular basically being a nerf against a playstyle for no reason other then the Melee kiddies don’t like it) I wouldn’t be surprised if we keep seeing Peach/Jiggly/Falco tournament vids with low amounts of actual contact and a lot of time spent positioning/running/spamming.
Also, turning on heavy gravity and auto-reflect in Brawl is a terrible idea. If you don’t like the fact that projectile/zoning games can work in Brawl, stop playing the damn game. And heavy gravity adversely affects physics in the game in a lot of ways beyond making ‘combos’ more viable. Punishing 90% of the cast for whiffing an off-the-stage attempt to hit the opponent because the new gravity makes them fall too fast to recover after trying it doesn’t sound like a positive improvement to me- it sounds like it’s castrating other elements of the game for the sake of a single playstyle. Banning Metaknight is also dumb because in the competitive metagame he’s the best character but not anywhere near unbeatably so. He’s SF4 Sagat- a lot of good matchups, but not a whole lot of full-on curbstomping. Thinking banning Meta is going to open up the game is wrong, because most of the characters who get shut out of the game by Metaknight still get shut out of the game by other members of the top tier because the reason they’re not competitive is flaws in their own design or abilities, not anything Metaknight is capable of. Taking Meta out of the game isn’t going to send anyone shooting up the tier lists or opening the doors for any characters not already winning tournaments, barring possibly Pit. DDD’s more guilty of removing viable characters from tournament play then Meta is, being a dirt-easy counter pick for DK and Luigi (also Bowser and Mario and Samus, but their tournament viability is debatable)
Also, turning on heavy gravity and auto-reflect in Brawl is a terrible idea. If you don’t like the fact that projectile/zoning games can work in Brawl, stop playing the damn game.
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Um, ok? I don’t play barlw because it’s not fun. My ideas make barlw fun, at least for me it does. You should try it. Falco metagame is basically laser camp a lot and get a chain throw when possible. You think that’s a fun way to play the game? If we take out the boring projectile camping, we can reveal the fun strategies characters can have without projectiles. You can still zone without projectiles.
So you’re afraid one 1 minor cost to this new and improved system. Why not take a risk and try it? I think you got the last sentence backwards. I’m constraining off stage gimping to improve on stage gameplay because like 95% of the time, the fight is played on the stage.
You misunderstood. I was saying all 3 of those rules should be in effect. With reflect status, MetaKnight loses nothing while his only threats lose what makes them threats against MetaKnight. This would make MetaKnight too overpowered.