@ myself. I still think that Ryu and Ken have a slight advantage over Zangief (at the very highest levels). But instead of 6-4, I would now change that to 55 Ryu/Ken - Zangief 45. If I had to rate it out of 10 matches, I would say it’s even 5-5.
This is after playing Snake Eyez’ Zangief online BTW (he’s tough and he cleanly beat me more times than I beat him, but it wasn’t to the point where I felt helpless, not enough to counterpick anyway LOL). I also watched him on the stream vs Choi and DGV at EVO2K10 and heard that he beasted Cole’s Dhalsim, Sirlin, your Honda and other Hondas in casuals. After all that, I still think Zangief is not overpowered in any way, he’s only slightly better than he is ST IMHO. It’s just that Snake Eyez is a very talented Zangief player.
Most people forget that some matchup ratings only take effect at very high level play. I’m talking about players like Shooting D, Yaya, Aniken playing only HDR instead of ST, and becoming not only familiar with the game’s changes, but coming up with some new uses for the changes that we haven’t seen yet. Can you imagine if Daigo and Kuni only played HDR for a year and met at EVO11’s grand finals as R.Ryu vs R.Zangief, do you think that Kuni would beast Daigo? Anything’s possible, but I think it will most likely be a very close match IMO. People are also forgetting that Ryu’s Fake Hadoken and Ken’s new Fierce Shoryuken help vs Lariats, esp Ken. Against a top Ken player like Aniken, who has incredibly fast reflexes, doing any Lariat within half screen range will get Zangief burned, I have no doubts about that.
He’s definately refering to HDR Gief since the thread is about the Event Hubs tier list for HDR.
There is something that caught my attention though.
Here is what Damdai said in this thread:
This is very interesting to me because when he said that quote of “Zangief doesn’t have an advantage over Ken. Ken beats him 7-3 or worse”, he said it on September 08, 2009.
The Capcom NYC Fight Club took place on Oct. 22, 2009.
So his opinion changed in the timeframe of just over a month?
As far as the podcast, he said Zangief was too powerful.
What many probably don’t know is about 3 months ago at West Coast Warzone 2, Damdai and Snake Eyez played a series of casual matches which I captured some on my youtube channel. Snake Eyez had the better win percentage.
Could that have been the spark to send Damdai on his Anti-Zangief tantrum in which we all experienced in the podcast?
So basically Snake Eyez is the US version of Jodim, in the way that he seems to just “win”, even the really difficult matchups. Regarding shotos vs Zangief, you cannot lump Ryu and Ken together because Ken cannot be safejumped. Ken is definitely slightly harder for Gief (I confirmed this with Jodim himself, who even said that the strongest player he ever faced was Aniken).
I’m not a fan of DGV’s style against Zangief, where you have to be really solid defensively as Ryu. This is not a knock on DGV, I just feel that his approach to the matchup might be over-aggressive, especially against calculative Zangief players like Snake Eyez and Jodim. Having watched players like ShootingD fight the best Zangiefs, I feel that there is a qualitative difference in the way they carefully play to avoid as much damage as possible. I was more surprised that Choi lost to Snake Eyez, but then again, like most of the OGs he doesn’t practice SF2 at all.
Watch out Army of Darkness, the Fawk U Bro’s are in the house. We got now, we don’t care who got next!
EDIT: Posted this for some laughs, this thread is getting too serious. One thing I was gonna say about the DGV/Snake fight: DGV was way too risky, I can’t remember how many times I predicted his jump-in would get lariat’ed.
They are certainly not the same, but they have similarities, which are ground normals and the anti-air move. As for the match-up, Ken may have a better SRK, but he also has a worse tatsu and a worse hadouken. The move of choice by the top Ryus against ticks that are not safe jumps is the short tatsu, not the SRK, so this is one point. The hadouken poses a big threat to Zangief (and many other characters who have superior footsies, such as Chun) as it can more easily be sneaked in between Gief’s pokes for a knockdown or pushback. Ken’s can even be swept on reaction (see Shogatsu against Kens). Point is it needs not to be swept, but after a lariat Ken’s SRK will not help much as he will get crossed-up. In addition to it, Ryu can do a walk-up cr.forward xx hadouken for a knockdown, while if Ken tries it, not only it may not combo, but he is likely to get lariated out of the move for a possible round loss. In a nutshell, Ken is better at waking up from the front but “better” at getting knocked down, too.
Friday night casuals he beat Thelo at least once out of 2 matches and then proceeded to go on what seemed like an infinitely endless win streak vs aqua snake, ea megaman, sweetjv, moocus, dngrus pprcut, mad grab, myself (though I got 2 perfect s on him ha!) and 1 or 2 other players who aren’t completely horrible.
yup.
Wolfe won with sim in 06, and I agree with this post as well:tup:
It’s not as big as an accomplishment as winning st evo with geif but it’s still an amazing accomplishment to win evo at all let alone RAPE literally almost al lthe top players in either game along the way.
Snake himself says “Zangief is the worst character in the game” in the interview. BAM! (This post should be taken as a joke.) I’d also like to sex the SFIV woman’s champion
So wait, this thread turned into an HDR = bad because Zangief = too powerful?
Is this thread located in opposite land???
HDR owns
Zangief isn’t too powerful
If he was too powerful, we would have seen four Zangief’s (not Ryu) in the top eight, with two extra Zangief’s (not Mike Bison’s) and certainly no Dhalsim or Balrog (Claw)
BTW Sirlin
Can you please patch HDR so we can turn on the real/AKA Japanese names (not voices though, the American voices rock - Thrust Kick!)
And most importantly, let us turn on the CPS1 music like in AE. That music was the best.
Also, for all the haters out there.
[media=youtube]8uIBRApifR4[/media]
Well i have to say, i think the problem is that a lot of people was waiting for a DGV vs Daigo or something like that, i guess some people can’t even think that gief can win tourneys.
Now because Snake’s gief(not just the character, because the player makes the character, not the character makes the player) made a great job taking first place at evo, gief is “broken” and HD Remix is unbalanced.
IMO, that’s BS.
damdai:** if zangief is broken, why don’t you use him and win evo with him?, just prove it as you made it with akuma.**
“Zang is overpowered in HDR”.
Compared to what exactly? Is he better than ST O. Sagat or ST Claw? If the answer to that is “no”, then his “overpoweredness” is totally irrelevant.
"(Player name) doesn’t play HDR, they play ST"
So fucking what? If this isn’t a scrub complaint, I don’t know what is. You only won because I don’t take this game seriously!
"Gief beats Rog/Ryu, that’s why he won"
Again, so fucking what? Since when is playing metagame odds anything but smart?
do any body think if kuni would have won evo. would u be hearing o zangief is too powerful from damdai. he’s just mad because he never won an evo:arazz:
It is getting out of control, and has started to exemplify all that is wrong with internet communities. Y’all can disagree (which is cool, and healthy for the community), and even agree to disagree (even cooler, and very healthy for the community). But, do it with some sense of respect for each other. There is so much disrespect in this thread, it bums me out. It takes a lot of the fun out of SF. The SF community should be about fun and good times (even if we disagree). This is why support for ST AND HDR is dying, we just turn any type of ST/HDR community building event into this type of unconstructive SNFU. Who would want to be a part of this? Who would really what to spent their time supporting this community when we act like this?
I agree and disagree. I agree that blatant bashing needs to stop. I disagree that the thread just needs to unequivocally stop, since there is a legitimate (and interesting, at least to me) discussion to be had about Gief, Snake Eyes win, and yes even HDR vs. ST.
@ myself. I still think that Ryu and Ken have a slight advantage over Zangief (at the very highest levels). But instead of 6-4, I would now change that to 55 Ryu/Ken - Zangief 45. If I had to rate it out of 10 matches, I would say it’s even 5-5.
