idk about anyone else but im not talking about resets… resets are a completely different scenario than what im talking about
Yup.
It’s why Bella’s standing short is so good.
Also, Dime X, I never told you to airthrow, I told you to ADJUST.
So… you’re talking about air throw as a possibility for mixups?
Well… if you’re looking to hit someone on wakeup or frame trap, I’d suggest timing crouching attacks earlier. If the opponent tries to jump away, prejump frames are vulnerable. Not a perfect answer, but it’s an answer since simply jumping and throwing when you clearly expect it doesn’t seem to appease you.
edit: Since the reason it doesn’t appease you is that they can tech, if you expect the “os” jump back tech, jump and attack to stuff them. Nothing says “fuck your os back jump throw tech” than just hitting them in the face with j.LP into a full combo.
actually alex thats exactly what i was talking about…
let me explain the situation:
i jumpin and make the opponent block a jlk or a jhk… normally id be at a decent advantage here and can run a low/throw mixup that my opponents COULD NOT jump out of the low option… that kept them grounded… well if they were in fear of the low. so since ive got them in fear of the low, that means: THROW TIME BABY!
except that my opponent was jumping my low and jumping my throw… and occasionally blocking my low. so there was no real mixup on block EXCEPT for the incredibly obvious airthrow. now if i am to go airthrow as a mixup right there all my opponent has to do is jump out like he was while air teching… now to beat that i have to go on some yomi layer 3-4 shit and at that point ill be opening up my opponent so little that i might as well just not run a mixup and just rely on my starter counter hitting my opponent… it would probably work more.
the thing to realize here is that the situation im referring to here is not a reset situation… im not in combo yet. this is something to do to get me into a combo in the first place.
airthrow resets are complete 50/50’s with correct timing against peacock,bella,parasoul, and double. i love airthrow resets against them since they are so free to them. but thats…. a different situation.
Well… it may not be optimal but if the opponent keeps jumping back and you can’t possibly time your low any faster you might really have to jump throw. It’s not a thing of whether the tactic is weird, useless against some characters in some situations or not a “viable competitive strategy”; it’s there for you to be able to deal with that situation in the first place.
I mean, the only reason everyone has an air throw is so you can do the same attack/throw mixup you would do in the ground. Additionally for Painwheel it means full freaking combo, so it’s worth trying.
It may not be optimal, it may not be pretty and it may not be what you want, but it’s a tool you have for the situation.
And like the low attacks get the opponent blocking low for you to get the throw, throwing on jump will get the opponents to try to tech for you to j.LP, j.LK, j.MK xx fly, j.f+MK or whatever the hell Painwheel does.
yes yes i know this… ive been airthrowing people since world warrior was in the arcades and it was leet to airthrow computer sagat backwards after he wiffed a fierce dp… every character i use in sf4 has an arthrow, i refuse to use characters without airthrows…
having said that i already explained how i feel about them, YES I KNOW THEY ARE AN OPTION, but they are an option i will stay away from in that particular given situation cause given repeated use, it becomes predictable and ow probability and at that point if one hasnt practiced anything else, one is at a loss for offense.
i mean, as a first off mixup against an oppnent never played, fine could probably get away with it 3-4 times in a row… after that it becomes a mixup that at the end of the day has 6 options and only 1 out of those 6 options can do damage to the opponent and basically none of the options covers for any of the other options.
what im going to be trying to run has at most 3 options so thats a 33% chance to do damage even when the mixup is well known between the 2 players… and of those 3 options for defense 1 has the chance to cripple the opponents team if it fails.
i like the numbrs of the mixup im talking about better than the airthrow numbers…
which are:
opponent crouch blocks (beats airthrow)
opponent does invincible reversal (almost never seen cause its neutral, but its still an option… note that alpha counters i would generally put here though they also lose to throw, tags being invincible go here as well)
opponent jumps (beats throw and maybe low)
thats 3 options till we add in an extra reversal option for air (4 now)
frame trap for air (5 now)
low to try and beat jump (6)
taking out the low to try and beat jump since it cant… thats still 5 options for a 20% chance to do damage…
i like 33% chance to do damage, better.
maybe thats just me though but yeah, ill throw if its waranted or if a cannot enact my 33% strat.
Did you read any of the people who told you to utilize mid attacks which hit him or at the very least keep him on the ground?
yes, but i didnt like that because it loses to pushblock… the same as a blocked cr.lk does. tomo was PB every cr.lk he blocked so i couldnt tickthrow him… what would be the point of using a mid that gets pushblocked?
nope, still not a great option, we have to remember, this is little marvel, blockstrings are wack, planning on being blocked is wack, want you want to do to your best ability, is to run blockbeaters as much as possible. in as much variance as possible. ie overhead/low/throw/leftright/chip damage… those are all blockbeaters and the best players base there teams on them in marvel
morrigan is based on chip damage… as an example.
if anyone watched daigos first attempt to play mvc3… he used wolverine and his primary thing was to dash in hp + dante jam session xx bslash crossup… ie he started with a crossup, a blockbeater… none of this make them block so i can mix them up crap that just gets pushblocked into oblivion.
in my mind if i got blocked outside of my jumpin… i already made a mistake, in fact doing jumpins is weak from where im standing as well… but its all that painwheel really has to be offensive… and this was where my pre patch painwheel was the weakest as far as my own offense goes… i got around it by turning it into a 50/50 by using jhk and jlk which have different timings for pushblock… so basically i had to run a weak 50/50 pb mixup just to run a true blocking mixup if i was successful… but thats pushblock for ya… pretty overpowered defense to make up for overpowered offense.
and as i said i know the steps i have to take to get around this… its just that its higher skill shit… naturally.
I’m out of town so I can’t test these but: dime, follow your qcf+lp with a meaty f+hk to beat jumps and get through pb with that tech from months ago. Someone run painwheels with diamond drop assist and follow qcf+lp with assist and charged j.hp.
Also may be getting a new melbourne recruit.
it’s not his LP Stinger reset that he was talking about haha. That reset works exactly as it always did.
Start up PS3 to download patch: YES!
Patch screen starts loading: YES!
Look at size of patch: :wow:
:rock:
Is it just me or am I the only one upset that Parasoul can cancel out of her level three, and still be able to setup tears or cross you up to death. While Doubles lv 3 does minimal damage and puts both you and you opp so far away that you can’t set up anything. Now ain’t that a bitch. I am annoyed at that greatly especially because I feel she got the short end of the stick out of the entire cast. But I thankful for Pali for showing me what Parasoul could do otherwise if I had heard it from someone else I would not believe it.
Have you tried forcing them into the situation you want? Here’s an example. When I try to reset with valentine on the ground ill end my strings with j. Lk or a canceled j. Hp after they are out of hitstun. If they hit, (on down back or mashed throw tech), horray reset. If they don’t hit, they pin the opponent to the floor preventing them from jumping. At that point I can go low, re jump iad overhead, or throw them. In fact I can tick throw after any standing lp or crouching lk so I can low and throw if I want to and since my block string keeps them on the ground they get hit by a low if they try to up back at any time.
You are a painwheel user right? The other day I was getting hit by some string that kept me pinned so I couldn’t up back mash throw tech. You sure a simple c. lp c. lk chain doesn’t keep them pinned after a block? They may block it hut you at least know they are on down back now and that gives you 50 50 low throw mix up.
Oh also remember hk buer reaper. If someone mashes up back tech they aren’t blocking. So just do that thing.
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Well her level 3 before was borderline unnecessary and not really that safe on block so it’s good that they buffed it up just for the sake that it did need to be more useful period. There’s really no reason to use it in combos because Parasoul when you optimize her can already do some whack ass damage in her combos and just set up restand mix ups n shit. Now she gets like a more balanced Point/Dante THC from UMVC3.
Double was always more of a support character in tournaments…so now she’s just back to being a more balanced version of that role. I don’t think there’ll be a strategic reason to ever play her as a point character over the other characters. You just use her after a DHC or when she’s the last one left and just use her safe supers and strong assists to buff up your team. She’s an ideal character for a 3 character team I believe. Although 2 character teams may not find as much reason to use her depending.
Some double insights from training mode: first off tmode now shows blockstun for both teams now so if you record something then play it back on block it will show you your blockstun.
2.hornet bomber xx cats (mash dat jab) is character specifically safe. With painwheel i couldnt mash super to get out nor could i hold up… I was chillin in blockstun.
Now same recording against a mirror double and peacock… Both can punish with super though peacocks trades and both can simply hold up and punish double with a jump… Also painwheel is very obviously in much more blockstun than either pea or double.
Cilia slide xx cats is completely safe on all 3 characters when slide is done from near point blank range… Probably the same from far as well… Which means that double has a safe on block way to get into cats.
I always thought that punishing cats from bomber was character specific… Could always do it with double but never with painwheel
Pushblock guard cancel is pretty easy.
Basically you pushblock then let the controller go to neutral then time your super/invincible move input to occur within 4 frames of your pushblock ending… The thing to note here that is of utmost importance to understand, is that the timing DOES NOT VARY. It will always be a certain amount of time after the pushblock since pushblock lasts the same amount of time everytime.
Also, you are not canceling pushblock, you are making it so that your character returns to a neutral state after the pushblock recovers, instead of staying in a blocking state. Once tou know the timing of when the pushblock will end you simply have to time your special or super to be within the last 4 frames of recovery to catch the reversal window.
In practice against cerebella st.hp xx cerecopter… Its really easy. And the timing shouldnt change in game… Feels like a slow parry…
pushblock guard cancel??? thats what im gonna be practicing when i get the patch.
Yep it works… Thats exactly what i was thinking as well… Pbgc yo
I need to get used to pushblock guard cancel, I kind of suck at it right now. You sure pushblock has the same frames no matter what?
I was practicing against Peacock s.HP xx HP Bang x 3
You looking for tight blockstrings to get low/throw mixups? lol
That and other things…lol right now just mostly learning your bnb… I dont fucking like the tight ass links… Pre patch i had my combo designed for the easiest links possible… Now i need to have better timing… I wouldnt mind were it not for the online component. But its a pain to learn a combo that i know i have a high chance to drop… Makes learning it non fun 
Haha naw i dont know if pbgc has the exact same timing for doing it to different moves… It may vary slightly cause of hitstop, though in theorythe actual frames should stay the same. When doing it against the same exact blockstrings though the timing doesnt differ… So it MAY be string dependent.
Protip:
Dont fuck with neutral, for whatever reason when i go to neutral then do my move i always get hit and my stuff never comes out… So what i do is i move the stick all the way through neutral to forward then i input my move… Works like butter for me, maybe it will help you out as well.
After playing for a few hours today I am going to stick with Peacock / Parasoul. Once I iron the kinks of combos this time will suit me just fine.