you arent even going to try her out? while i do think the nerfs were overboard i dont think mike made her intentionally bad, he wouldnt do that imho… shes still viable… i think.
also what do you do against good kepaway with parasoul when you go up against it with that team… it just seems that if you go up against a peacock team or a parasoul team with a fireball assist that your team looks to have some major problems…
the only games ive seen of you playing that team was against other rushdown characters, so wanted to see how you handle the keepaway matchups.
all i hear is salt… its a braindead hitconfirm? unlike parasouls jhp? unlike painwheels jmp? unlike painwheels throws? unlike filias airdash mp xx hk
this game is chock FULL of braindead hitconfirms. doubles jhp is actually one of the least oppressive of the bunch cause she cant dash jump like every other character, meaning its harder for her to put that jhp on ya.
anywho if this sounds accusatory and flagrant that isnt the tone im going for… its just that complaining about about double having a braindead hitconfirm when theres painwheel confirming off of everything, parasoul with a blockstring that is easy to confirm and harder on average to pushblock… bella with tick throws into much damage, MF with head making every confirm completely safe and actually advantaged, filia with her “did it hit… no? ok then do another move… did it hit? no? ok do another move… did it hit? no? ok do another move umvc3 captain america abare cancel gameplay”
like i said i just still seems that double is getting picked on for no good reason… her op shit was her bomber her cats and her lvl 3… everything else about the character is completely fine and truthfully a tad bit underpowered when compared to the rest of the cast.
You know, Double has more to her than the limited tool set that people have been on for the past few months. Bitch has a collection of some of the best normals from the entire cast, come on. There was always more to her than the three or four tools that were tweaked, people just need to learn how to use those now. Plus, outside of M/H Bomber, they shouldn’t affect her support role at all.
so throw people… its what she does. then mix that up with her cr.lk… easy 50/50 and stay safe with runstop on block or go for command grab mixup on block or do armored punch… all of which arent the easiest things to punish on block if you keep them varied… im not really seeing the point, bellas confirm is 3 hits and easy as stupid to confirm… like everyone elses.
bella also has a run and a glide which double doesnt… but you dont hear me complaining about those do you?
LOL… im not taking this seriously so dont take it to heart man, confirms are easy across the board is all im saying.
i have yet be told of a character on this game that doesnt have some easy braindead confirms. it really isnt an issue to me, confirms SHOULD be braindead imho… thats what the confirm is…
Well, can you really call jump-in attacks and throws brain-dead confirms? =/
Also, Parasol standard confirm string without RC Soldier has the gaps, so idk if you want to use that as an example. Bella has a couple of confirms, all of which can continue into kara grabs, so you shouldn’t really have a problem with her.
When I’m on point w/ Bella I use Filia’s HK hairball, then I usually either do fly clap, c.lk or close grab. But then again, I usually only play my offline friend that sucks at the game as well. I don’t know if it would be useful or if it would be terrible in a competitive scene.
Are you trying to tell me how to use Bella? … okay, discussion…
Bella has confirms? j.mp, j.hp, combo on a grounded opponent, and… um… that’s it. It’s a good option, don’t get me wrong, but it’s a regular jump-in. There’s no other move that you can just throw out, watch it land, then combo from, at least not as easily as others. That’s the price she pays for the Command Grabs, which can only really produce damage and situations she needs in the corner. Bella’s grabs are meant to cover up the fact that she can’t threaten much without them. If the opponent didn’t have to be scared of a blocked hit cancelling into a grab, then she couldn’t be nearly as effective.
Which 3-hit hit confirm are you talking about? Or are you talking about three separate hit confirms? Because… either way, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Also, every character has a 50/50 with the low/throw mix-up, mentioning it for Bella is… Also, Runstop isn’t a block-string, especially not from c.lk. And… Armored Punch?
And lastly, why does Double not having a Run or Glide have to do with Bella’s lack of Hit-Confirms?
I’m not complaining about Bella, I love everything about her (sans Reflector…). I know what to do with her, I know how to play (not to say I have nothing to learn), but when you say “Well, everyone has braindead confirms, so leave Double j.hp alone”…
you are correct in me trying to get a point across rather than discussing frame data… in games like this i dont particularly think any frame data besides startup is super duper relevant… primarily cause most everything can be canceled into something else… watch mike “frame trap” all day with filias blocked cr.mk into updo or blocked st.hp into updo… both moves are “unsafe” on block but with the ability to cancel into something that wil beat out nearly any retaliation… “unsafe” starts to mean alot less.
runstop and all of bellas stuff not completely safe on block you say? how about that command grab? cr.lk> GRAB… they CANT sit there and wait to punish your 3 string into ender and avoid the command grab at the same time… same thing goes with pushblock… they are pushblocking you? cant pushblock and throw tech at the same time afaik… not that it would mean anything against bella with her command grab being unbreakable anyways even if the OS of lp,mp,lk does indeed os pushblock and tech.
if im getting pushblocked to much i grab, if im gettiing blocked to much i grab, if im getting teched to much i low… sg is easy… this shit is like ST man
i mean seriously bella having problems being blocked… for real?
take that with a grain of salt, i dont mean to be a jerk but i dont ever remember having a problem with my shit getting blocked as a gief player. and i dont have a problem getting blocked using PW and i dont have a problem getting blocked using double… this is all because i throw all day long… perhaps you should as well?
pws 3 string into flight isnt safe on block… yet i get away with it all day… it isnt the easiest thing to counter at all and if i do start getting countered for it i will simply stop doing it as much… filias updo xx air gregor isnt safe on wiff… yet ive only seen it punished about 3 times in 50, parasouls hpx2 into tear isnt safe, yet its still done all day…
the 3 string with bella that im talking about is cr.lk,cr.mp,cr.hp… it can be canceled into a multitude of moves to make it hard to punish… not only that but like ANY character the special move that is canceled into can be done while calling a lockdown assist to cover for its recovery…
idk man, you have very linear obvious options to make it work better for you, you may not have a PERFECT option but no character does… doubles jhp certainly isnt completely safe…
dont have a lockdown assist cause you use solo bella only? welcome to the world of bad choices, population EVERYONE at some point in time or another.
you are correct about doubles dash jump… however i wasnt talking about dash jump as an option more of being able to cancel dash in the middle of it instead of in the first frames… it makes a big difference.
however since i wasnt being COMPLETELY ANAL for like the first time and didnt mention that little tidbit like i normally do, fine, you win that exchange.
do i come off as irate? im completely relaxed man… or as relaxed as i get. its just how i talk… if you take offense pls tell me what in particular you take offense to… and ill see if i can correct it.
though if its the snarky comments… sorry i just cant help myself… bella having problems being blocked… the entire concept is hilarious to me.
Bella has st.hp xx run-stop, cr.lk -> st.mp, st.lp *2 -> st.mp and st.hk xx run-stop. Anything ending in st.mp is going to be +2, the hp xx run-stop should be neutral at worst and the st.hk xx run-stop should be about the same. Her only issue is dealing with the push block that tends to happen at the end of those strings, which is when you start to vary your run follow-ups and kara your enders.
Also, just to nitpick, PW st.hp xx fly is neutral on block, so it’s safe. If anything is going to be punished, it’s the follow-up.
no nigga, pw can not block during flight and her fastest normal is in the air is 8 frames so she is atleast minus 8 there until she can block. she can however fly away or super to make herself much safer as well as charge her jumping hp into armor.
but calling her “neutral” when she cant block for atleast 8 frames is a misnomer
but fuck it ill call this point a tie between us cause you do bring up a valid argument… for all intents and purposes pw is safe after doing st.hp xx fly
-edit OH SH… just realized that this might make pw st.hp xx fly ADVANTAGED ON BLOCK in the patch cause of the +3 blockstun on everything… yummy
(and yes i know her hitstun got nerfed a bit, dont know about her blockstun though)
not wanting to sound like an ass, i have nothing against you, but you cant just try and cast stuff that you said away without people calling you up on it. we arent mind readers here.
anyway. i know what you mean that a jump in is not really a hard hitconfirm to see, but j.HP as it is currently is even godlike as an air to air as well since it doesnt knock the opp away and also preserves the OTG for later use. its probably one of the best air to airs in the game without the crazy amounts of hitstun it does.
umm, you realize that being neutral in this case means she can act immediately after the fact, right? Not whether or not she can block immediately…that’s a side effect of being in flight. If she was at least -8, that would mean there’s nothing you can do for those 8 frames, which isn’t true. Maybe I should say it like this, both the opponent and PW can act immediately after st.hp xx flight. That should clear up the technical issues, I hope.
^^
On Double’s j.hp, wasn’t that originally supposed to be faster than Painwheel’s j.mp, but do less damage and hit stun? :S
however if you read my quoted script, it can be said that i am still correct cause of the english i used. after all i literally said :“double cant dash jump “like” every other character”
so even then i was alluding to doubles dash jump being different than all the other characters… which it certainly is.
but you will no doubt think its just me trying to squirm my way out of a hard to defend position… lol fine you win, if thats what you care about… i dont.
also i will fully admit that doubles dash jump being different from all the other characters has little to do with her jhp actually… it has much more to do with her not being able to airthrow as easily as any other character at neutral so in the end it was a bad example to use as the only thing keeping her dash jhp from being better is execution. her dash airthrow or jlp into air confirm options however most certainly arent nearly as good as other characters cause double cant vary the spacing of her dash jump once its been done.
which probably sounds like a bunch of gobbledygook to you… but i digress.