we are entering into a skullgirl “grey area”
filia is at minus whatever on blocked… like everything. however going word for word of what you just said (and conveniently bolded for me)
then filia technically isnt minus after most things cause she can cancel those things into other things…
(q up dr.evil, pinky in mouth face)
God damnit man, I mean the straight recovery after st.hp xx flight. As in, going frame for frame it should be 0, meaning either side can act immediately. No additional cancels, just the raw flight. Now, what you do from that position on either side is after the fact, whether it be attempting to hit PW because she can’t block during flight, or punishing the attempt to hit PW out of flight in some way. It’s not like Filia being minus on say a completed, close range slide, but then cancelling that into w/e. Just to theorize, if PW was -8 on the flight cancel, then things like Val st.lp (6f) would be a punish, not an AA attempt vs PW; the only option you would have would be to cancel into super or something, but since it’s even/neutral/zero you have other ways to deal with it that don’t involve cancels.
Not really a grey area to be honest, it’s just straight frame data. Now, if the next issue is what to do about not being able to block during that time, I’m all for discussing it.
holy shit this is the most discussion ive seen in this thread for fucking ages.
tis all good 
this thread is gonna blow the fuck up on the 20th
you calling it “neutral” is a misnomer… straight frames or whatever neutral in a NON SG GAME MEANS NOTHING YOU DO CAN DIRECTLY PUNISH ME… not theoretically, not in game either… it is just IMPOSSIBLE to punish +0… FACT.
with PW however there ARE theoretical ways to punish her canceling into flight even though YOU maintain that she is at 0 (neutral) when she clearly isnt:
SHE CAN NOT BLOCK… her opponent CAN… her opponent can do ANYTHING, painwheel, not being able to block… can not do ANYTHING. simple math tells me that if ihave 99% of my options… that isnt 100%
going on if you want a real world example…
painwheel versus filia:
pw has no meter, pw does st.hp xx flight and filia does reversal dp super.
PW GETS HIT NO MATTER WHAT. that isnt NEUTRAL man.
anywho its apples and oranges i already gave it up that pw is indeed next to impossible to punish on her flight cancel, its you that wants to force her being at “neutral” when clearly she is not, as neutral means having 100% of your positions options… of which blocking is certainly one of them.
anywho its been good talking to you and everyone else, ive learned alot here and hopefully some others did as well. i unfortunately have to go to a family function and so have to stop this conversation. till next time yall.
As enjoyable as always. Enjoy the function.
Oh shit, actual game play discussion?
Ew.
Also, View is right, that one string of run stop is a block string forgot about that since I always get pushblocked.
The follow up is no longer a string, but the merry go rilla pushblock setup prevents braindead pushblocking if it’s done.
If that bitch (PW) was negative after the flight cancel instead of nuetral, she could be punished by a command grab, but since she’s neutral, she can go into flight again, if she has made the person she’s playing afraid of pressing buttons, which is great for pressure.
Also, unless I’m high there’s this mechanic where PW can’t blocking during flight, that’s why she gets hit by Filia’s air super, not because she’s negative, but because when she cancels into flight, she can’t block, while, y’know, flying.
left for a few hours
sigh… I wanted to be in the discussion, but this is too much. Maybe tomorrow… expect late alerts, all of you!
There are a few factors that determine what you can do after the flight cancel, like distance from the opponent and what options the opponent has available. Doing st.hp xx flight cancel directly next to Filia would result in PW getting hit by Fenrir Charge every time because FC is instant, while anything PW does in the air has to go through start-up, including the 4 frame start-up for super armour on j.hp. The general confirm string into flight usually creates enough space so that isn’t an issue, though.
At a slight risk at necroing this topic (which i REALLY dont want to do) my last point on the rather stupid pw flight advantage discussion:
You know what a neutral state is right? Well when speaking of advantage and disadvantage… The point that is being made is how long it takes a character to get back to a neutral state.
Ok so now that we get that that is indeed what is going on heres the kicker and im going to capitilize the point so it sinks in:
FLIGHT IS NOT A NEUTRAL STATE.
Therefor one cannot say that pw is + or - anything cause painwheel has not recovered yet. Once she lands on the ground… Thats when she gets back to a neutral state, barring landing recoveries or whatever stuff i dont know if she has for flight.
But like i said, its a very small point, more academic than anything, in the real world it wont mean that much besides the fact that pw generally isnt going to have the option to just sit there and look for stuff (she has to fly backwards thus giving up ground to do that)
But yes i do of course see the point you are making. You are saying that pw has recovered from the st.hp when she gains the ability to attack or move in flight and that at that point she is +0
Yep, I got it. Incorrect usage of neutral in this scenario. Thanks for the breakdown.
Well considering “flight” is a move, as long as she’s in flight, she’s active.
…Kind of weird.
Also, I am loving my new avatar.
Thanks inappropriate images of James Sunderland.
Guys, what are my options when I want to use Bellas merry-go-round super?
You’re…Just gonna have to phrase that a whole lot better?
Tick throws, setups afterwards, kara run cancelling into 360?
Well I guess what I want to know is in what situations should I be using 360? I end up always having 3 bars + of meter but I can never find a way to implement the 360, unless the obvious when my opponent whiffs a move hardcore and I’m in range.
There’s only something called “Merry Go-Rilla” and that’s her QCB-Grab, not a super.
Are you asking for setups how to land it efficiently or what exactly is your question?
E: If you’re talking about her 1bar-Super-360, that’s called “Ultimate Showstopper”.
Ah sorry, I’m getting myself confused, and just looked at the notations again.
What I was previously asking about was the ultimate showstopper, and I want to add to that if you can, if you can tell me how to set up diamonds are forever.
If you have 3 bars, fuck the 360, go for her level 3, unless you’re going for a DHC.
Hell, you can even do Merry Go Rilla into level 3, get that fat wallbounce into restand combo.
Honestly, you won’t be using it that much outside of tickthrows, she has better options in general.
She’s different than other grapplers where the goal is to land the grab using footsies, the grab is more of a mixup than the end goal.
If you want more information, your best bet is the Cerebella thread, someone will be there to answer you soon, knowing the people who visit this form, it’ll either be Milkcow, myself, Age or Zidane.
I mention some of this in the guide linked in my sig. To me 360 is either a hail mary wake-up or a very late anti-air. That means you use the invincibility to negate whatever pressure you’re under, and if they’re close to you and on the ground you inflict a nice chunk of damage. The best offensive way to use 360 in my opinion is as a DHC, I could be wrong since I recall hearing you can jump after the flash anyway, but certain supers like Valentine’s scalpels or Parasoul’s sniper shot can make it a safe way in. Stunt-double into 360 is also probably a viable use of it.
Prepatch I would never recommend 360 as a punish or tick throw since her other moves or command grabs can lead to more damage for the same meter in most cases, and a whiffed diamond drop is lett punishable than a whiffed 360 and doesn’t cost you anything. Post patch we’ll have to see, since you can now get a full combo off it.
There are also strange situations that pop up where your only option really is to 360, like when you’re too low on life to block a super, none of your other moves are available or would get beaten, so a 360 saves you. You can also use the invincibility as a way to dhc Bella out.
Cerebella should get some Rindokaun Bible level shit going for the patch.
If like 10 or more people contribute it would be boss.
her level 3 is pretty much never worth using in combos due to it getting scaled to fuck, unless you DHC into it for the 85% scaling reset.
honestly the best use for it really is to get bad assist calls with it since it can turn around the match if the opp is not careful. occasionally you can catch people with it who are trying to rush you down if they are too eager to push buttons but thats about it.